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Old 11-12-2007, 04:54 PM   #51
Scottes
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Ed's theory should be simple to test in a short time, since I would think that if he's right this would apply to wines as well as rum. And since wines change faster the test would not take 6 months, but rather a week.

Open a bottle of wine and have 3 bottles, 375ml, available.
Fill the first to the very top so that wine spills out when you cork it.
Split the remaining wine between the other 2 small bottle in a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio. Cork both.

In 3 days, taste all 3 comparing the differences.
According to Ed's theory, the wine in the first should not change at all.
Of the remaining bottles, the wine in the fuller one should have changed some, and the wine in the last should have changed a lot.


Having typed all that, I do believe this test would prove what I've been hearing for quite some time when researching vacuum vs inert gas.
I think that I saw a very very similar test last week when researching for this thread.
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Old 11-12-2007, 06:05 PM   #52
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Wine is very different from distilled spirits. As wine drinkers know, very few wines will last a week after being opened.
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:14 PM   #53
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I am still wondering if a vacuum rubber seal, like those that are used for wine would work. They are pretty air tight. Help me on this one, gentlemen!
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:01 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Hamilton View Post
very few wines will last a week after being opened.
Yeah, that's why I figured it would prove the test faster than trying with rum. Otherwise it's a 6-month test or longer.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:08 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Koestner View Post
I am still wondering if a vacuum rubber seal, like those that are used for wine would work. They are pretty air tight. Help me on this one, gentlemen!
I have seen test results where the vacuum products do not last nearly as long as the inert gas. And I personally have a hard time thing that a vacuum would hold for the length of time to have an effect on rum. Nature abhors a vacuum.

With inert gas the key would be stability, I would think. Gas it, cork it, put it on a shelf and don't move it. That should hold for a very long time.

I found some expanding rubber seals the other day, like a very stable, airtight cork for a wine bottle. Lift the lever, place it into the bottle, and depress the lever which causes a rubber gasket to expand, thus sealing the bottle quite well. http://www.midwestsupplies.com/produ...px?ProdID=4265
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Old 01-05-2008, 09:26 PM   #56
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Tonight, I opened my new bottle of Neisson XO, and compared it to the one I purchased last year. I have been drinking this one all year, and just recently I have started using inert gas in my bottles.
In the comparison, I found the newer rum to be richer and more bold, I would say there was a 20% reduction in overall taste compared to the old bottle.. The biggest distinction between the two was that the newer bottle had a very present oak/ leather quality to the flavor, very deep. The rest of the flavors were somewhat consistent between the two. It seemed that the older one was a bit more acidic, if that is a good description. There was a definite reductioin in flavor in the older bottle, but it is still very drinkable.
Still, I will finish it tonight now that the new bottle is opened.

I will do the same with my 4 - 6 month old bottle of Zacapa 23 and my new one. More to come.
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:02 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Koestner View Post
Tonight, I opened my new bottle of Neisson XO, and compared it to the one I purchased last year. I have been drinking this one all year, and just recently I have started using inert gas in my bottles.
In the comparison, I found the newer rum to be richer and more bold, I would say there was a 20% reduction in overall taste compared to the old bottle.. The biggest distinction between the two was that the newer bottle had a very present oak/ leather quality to the flavor, very deep.
So, what's the precise percentage you'd put on deterioration over the year, versus the new bottle possibly being derived from a newer or different batch that had a richer profile and flavors to begin with?
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:42 AM   #58
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Very good point, Matusalem. That was one point I did not make in my last entry. I felt there was a 20-25% reduction in flavor, and the older bottle did seem a little flatter than the new one. I have found that Martinque based agricoles are somewhat consistent from batch to batch, as was evident by some of the flavors being the same. The one factor that can not be trully measured here is the possibility of variation in the different batches. Looking at this from a more scientific point, maybe the only way to compare batches is to buy a bottle, keep it unopened, then buy another bottle from a different batch 6 to 12 months later and then make a comparison.
This also drives home the importance of making good tasting notes as soon as you open a new bottle. If you keep the rum for any length of time, you can retaste and make comparisons, or make comparisons to a new bottle.
According to my notes a year ago, I think this new batch was just slightly richer, it had a leather flavor to it that was not as noticable in the initial tasting a year ago in the older bottle.
Too, I must admit, I think my palate is becoming more experienced, and that I am better now at tasting spirits.
Looking forward to your opinions.
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Old 01-06-2008, 11:14 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Koestner View Post
According to my notes a year ago, I think this new batch was just slightly richer, it had a leather flavor to it that was not as noticeable in the initial tasting a year ago in the older bottle.
Too, I must admit, I think my palate is becoming more experienced, and that I am better now at tasting spirits.
Looking forward to your opinions.
I'm glad to see that you recognize that your palate is becoming more mature. Even among experienced professional tasters palates are maturing. And so, the research continues.
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Old 01-06-2008, 11:17 AM   #60
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To myself the best way to test this theory is to buy two bottles from the same merchant at the same time. Unless it is a merchant that takes on huge stocks, there's a very good chance that both bottles would be the same batch. Opening one now and then the other later would make a good comparison IMHO.

There are definitely instances that I detected open deterioration, but at the same time there are items I've had open for several years - some are visited annually and have sentimental values and have held up very nicely.

One thing I figure should be included at least psychologically into the discussion; rum is one of the few spirits that I hear some enthusiasts actually prefer "screw tops". Almost any other spirit that offers both, enthusiasts gravitate almost unanimously to cork tops. To me this begs the question or gives the impression that the integrity of the tops used to seal (some) rums probably isn't quite as high as it is with spirits bottled more often in better developed countries / regions & markets.

I introduce that thought with Martinique particularly in mind. For obvious reasons, from the limited number of items I have experienced, the integrity appears high as I believe you indicated which to me these standards typically lead to better consistency (agreeing with you again). These rhums are also examples where I've found little or no deterioration over time, but that's just been my experience, my readily available choices are limited.
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