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Old 04-17-2008, 02:43 PM   #21
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That's a new useage of dunder to me Paul. I had always heard of it being used to help start fermentation a la Sour Mash Whiskey. I hadn't realized they added it to a spirit before final distillation. Very interesting!
I hadn't realised that neither. I always thought that the dunder was used in their fermentation. Learn a new thing every day...
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:12 PM   #22
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I always thought that the dunder was used in their fermentation.
Maltose-Lactose bacteria are responsible for much of the ester content in rum, and in whiskies as well. These bacteria live on dead yeast cells, so an extended fermentation is necessary for this to happen naturally. Rapid fermentation cycles leave little time for the growth of these colonies. Throwing in some of the old ROT still allows for expedient production schedules.
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:38 PM   #23
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Maltose-Lactose bacteria are responsible for much of the ester content in rum, and in whiskies as well. These bacteria live on dead yeast cells, so an extended fermentation is necessary for this to happen naturally. Rapid fermentation cycles leave little time for the growth of these colonies. Throwing in some of the old ROT still allows for expedient production schedules.

Have you heard of dunder being added in the distillation stage rather than the fermentation stage?
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:39 PM   #24
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How long a fermentation period is required for the development of maltose-lactose bacteria without the addition of dunder? To what extent is the development of such bacterial growth yeast strain dependent?
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Old 04-17-2008, 05:49 PM   #25
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I hadn't realised that neither. I always thought that the dunder was used in their fermentation. Learn a new thing every day...
Neither did i..this is a real interesting thread! still learning..
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Old 04-17-2008, 09:12 PM   #26
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Have you heard of dunder being added in the distillation stage rather than the fermentation stage?
Yes. The temperatures might leach more aromas out. But I think this step could also be advantageous in between fermentation and distillation. Only in late fermentation does the dead yeast availability offer nutrition for further bacterial growth.
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Old 04-17-2008, 09:21 PM   #27
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How long a fermentation period is required for the development of maltose-lactose bacteria without the addition of dunder? To what extent is the development of such bacterial growth yeast strain dependent?
Many distilleries work with a one day fermentation. The longer the fermentation the better the chances of other infection. For high esters, I have heard of up to 3 weeks of fermentation.

Thinking from the distilleries standpoint, how long would one want the tanks tied up? Slow fermentation means either smaller production or many times more equipment.

I am unaware of any yeast strain dependency in this. But a slow yeast could allow more bacterial growth.
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Old 04-17-2008, 11:33 PM   #28
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Many distilleries work with a one day fermentation. The longer the fermentation the better the chances of other infection. For high esters, I have heard of up to 3 weeks of fermentation.

Thinking from the distilleries standpoint, how long would one want the tanks tied up? Slow fermentation means either smaller production or many times more equipment.

I am unaware of any yeast strain dependency in this. But a slow yeast could allow more bacterial growth.

I remember reading now in a post by Scottes. He referenced the distiller in the Pilot Project here in Puerto Rico. Which I can't recall or find for the life of me now. Maybe it was Arroyo...Anyway..He(Arroyo) had proposed innoculating the fermentation with beneficial bacteria to do away with the pitfalls of dunder, and carry the wanted esters over to a "heavy" rum.
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Old 04-17-2008, 11:39 PM   #29
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If you smelt the Long Pond bottling we have and the Pussers, I think you'd be similarly convinced it was in the blend. I'll email Pussers later and see what we can get from them
I think you'll find a lot of similarities in the Long Pond and Pussers when it was bottled at 95.5 proof, but the newest blend lacks most of the character of the earlier blends. The label on the original bottle didn't mention Jamaica though it did mention Guyana, Trinidad and the British Virgin Islands though I was told the latter was old stock from the old distillery that no longer existed in 1992. While I agree that there are similarities between some Jamaican rums and some Guyanese rums, Pussers didn't contain the former and now only scant quantities of the latter.
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Old 04-18-2008, 02:01 AM   #30
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He(Arroyo) had proposed innoculating the fermentation with beneficial bacteria to do away with the pitfalls of dunder, and carry the wanted esters over to a "heavy" rum.
That certainly works... but probably takes longer.
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