MoR Mobile β


New Users Please read the thread in the Introductions Section.
Rum Lovers @ the Ministry of Rum

129 years ago in 1890, Compañia Licorera de Nicaragua, SA was established in Nicaragua.

Search by Label Name
Other Searches
Ministry of Rum Blog
Rum Events
Member Map
Rum Producers
Retail Index
Bars & Restaurants
Distributor Index
Rum Importer Index
Articles
Interviews
Frequently Asked Rum Questions
Rum 101
Test your Rum IQ
Rum Glossary
Rum Recipes
Ministry of Rum Giftshop
Trade Registry

Go Back   Rum Lovers @ the Ministry of Rum > Sugar Cane Spirits > Rum questions/discussions
Forgot Password?
Register FAQ Members List Unregistered Posts Mark Forums Read

Rum questions/discussions

General questions or discussions about particular brands should be posted here.


Reply
 
    Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-22-2009, 11:40 PM   #11
sailor22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 86
Default

Temperature change is preferable to a constant temp. The barrel is a membrane and you are using temperature (pressure) to force liquid through the char and in and out of the wood.
Some Bourbon is aged in warehouses that are periodically steam heated to 85 degrees and held there for several days then allowed to cool to ambient again during the coldest parts of the kentucky winter in order to speed the aging process.
I have heard that the environment does have an effect - dirt floors of barrel houses are mentioned by whiskey manufacturers as beneficial - and Scotch that is aged in warehouses near the ocean are supposed to have a slightly salty character. I expect this is relative to a much longer aging process than is typical to finishing at home in small barrels. I haven't noticed any of my whiskey tasting like my garage.
sailor22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 02:47 AM   #12
JMac
Senior Member
 
JMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 527
Default

Thanks Sailor22 for the info....

Along the lines of temperature...what about humidity as a method to prevent or at least slow down the amount of 'angel share'?
JMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 02:48 AM   #13
Vanpatt
Senior Member
 
Vanpatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 216
Default

Thanks for your comments/recommendations Arctic Wolf. I can find so little info on the web so the steps you've laid out are very welcome. My only question is why fill the barrel 1/3 full with the port in the initial stages, why not more? I'm got a batch of 23 litres coming from a wine making place so I certainly have lots to spare.

I think based on the comments that I've narrowed down the rum to either Lamb's white or Havana Club Anejo Blanco. If I find this batch to be too weak then on a second rum I'll mix in something of a higher proof.

Is there a tool to test the alcohol level (I was never very good in Science!).
Vanpatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 09:45 AM   #14
sailor22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 86
Default

Quote:
Along the lines of temperature...what about humidity as a method to prevent or at least slow down the amount of 'angel share'?
Certainly sounds reasonable. I'm not sure what part humidity plays - I have heard it described both as increasing proof and just the opposite. If more water than alcohol evaps the proof increases and visa versa.

I'm not a chemist but I would think there would be less water evap in a high humidity environment. But that is just a guess. I'm guessing that's why the large whisky mfgrs use steam in the warehouses in the winter - both to warm and raise humidity.
sailor22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 01:42 PM   #15
Arctic Wolf
Connoisseur's Cabinet Member
 
Arctic Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 917
Default

Hi Vanpatt

You are perfectly right. I should have said at least a third full rather than only a third full. This will mean you can turn the barrel less often as well. I recommended the high turning rate previously assuming a smaller quantity of port to ensure good contact with all parts of the barrel.

In fact I am extremely tempted to recommend you age a large batch of Port in the cask for much longer as well. (aged port I am told is very nice). However if you go that route it will change things. The procedure I outlined previously assumed the cask has not been infused with Port for a long time frame and also assumed you want an aging benefit to your rum.

If on the other hand you are not so concerned about an aging benefit for your rum but instead merely want a port influence on an already existing good rum. Then things reverse a bit. In this case you would leave your Port in for a longer time frame. (10 to 16 weeks) Again sample the Port each week and bottle it when you have achieved what you want. (realizing of course that the Port unlike a distilled spirit will continue to age after bottling.)

When you empty the Port, fill the cask with a good quality rum and sample after a week. (It will probably take only 1 to 4 weeks to achieve a nice Port influence. I would probably fill the port infused cask with only a 1/3 full with rum and turn frequently for the first bottle. If I liked the results I would then fill it completely full of rum for the next bottling. You would have so much port infusion that you would not need to refill with port yet. If I didn't like the results of the first rum tried, then I would select a different brand/type and try again with a small amount.

As for your rum choice I would recommend the Havana Club Blanco in the instance of my original recommendations (More influence on aging with port influence). But if you go the alternative route outlined above I would recommend (Less influence on aging) you should use one of your favourite rums aged or otherwise. (Maybe FDC 7)

Last edited by Arctic Wolf; 04-24-2009 at 01:47 PM.
Arctic Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 04:21 PM   #16
krustykrab
Senior Member
 
krustykrab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Massachusetts -North Shore
Posts: 213
Default

Very interesting thread! I have a few experiences to share, but am seeing a lot of what you all are seeing as well. I have been playing with aging rum for about a year now. I have 2 methods that I use - both have been mentioned here - the first is to use amber glass bottles (1L and 4L) then put in thin strips of toasted and/or charred wood. I have white oak trees in the back yard and had some nice pieces aging/ drying in the barn for over a year, so chopped them into thin strips and experimented with different levels of toasting through charring. We also have a lot of beech trees and have tried the same using the beech as well as apple (more about this below) the second method is 2 barrels, a 1L and a 5L oak from 1000 oaks that I got for Christmas.

With the glass/ wood strips - as has been mentioned - one has to be very careful and check often as the woody/smokey taste happens surprisingly quick, depending on the amount of char and amount of strips (surface area to volume ratio) used. I can get (at least what I think is comperable aging / smoothness/ smokiness) about 7-10 year traditional barrel aging in about 1-2 months. I have also found a surprising difference in the different wood used - I went in figuring, char/smoke is char/smoke, but no - oak comes out very different from beech, different from apple. All are very good in their own right - just surprisingly different. I've also tried mesquite - to disasterous results! Looking back, I should have known that it would be too resinous to come out good, although Anglesword (Temptryst Rums in TX) does a mesquite aged rum, so I'm not sure how he does it - maybe a very brief time in contact. Anyway, mine was undrinkable and precipitated upon dilution with water.

Now, as far as the barrels, I'm afraid I have gone too far! See I got the barrels for X-mas and immediately started a batch after going through the proper hydration etc. All seemed to be going well - I took a sample early - very little difference... then my wife and I had twins (and hence the hiatus from posting here on the forums much...) and I forgot about the barrels until this thread came up... now it is way over oaky - over smokey - tastes more like a whiskey! Oh, well, have to get it out of there and start over and pay more attention to it!

Sorry this is getting too long - I like the idea of the infused wood that came up as well - will have to try that. I usually start with higher proof, so I have the ability to dilute down and play with some blending, so my starting spirit of choice is W&N overproof white rum. Also the higher proof allows for extraction - ie I have had really good results after aging in making a very nice spiced rum! (save that for another post!)

cheers, and happy aging!

Last edited by krustykrab; 04-24-2009 at 04:25 PM.
krustykrab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 02:20 AM   #17
Vanpatt
Senior Member
 
Vanpatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 216
Default

Arctic Wolf, I really appreciate the guidance! I think I have my plan now aging the port for a longer period to come away with 5 litres of nice port and then go with an aged rum for a short period. I'll have to put some thought into what this first aged rum will be. The FDC 7 YR seems like a good option but perhaps the Havana Club 7 YR, or maybe the Appleton Reserve, maybe even something like Mt Gay XO?? Then in the second batch I'll go to a light rum and age it for a few months. This is a great new hobby, my fear is that with a single barrel I'm going to get impatient (I see more barrels in my future)!

Krustykrab, Congrats on your twins!! I never knew until this thread the option of modifying rum in glass. I think I might have to explore this avenue as well. How long did you have the rum in the barrel when you noticed it was over oaked? Interesting perspective on the overproof and then post mixing, I'll have to check that out but I think I'll test with normal proof rum first and see the results with our climate here.

I bottled my port last night and we fortified it with Marquis de Villard Brandy:

http://www.cognac-dupuy.com/EN/brandy_armagnac.html

It was amazing right away before any aging so I think I have a great base to enhance the rum with. With 31 750 ml bottles I'm going to have a lot to work with for future batches.
Vanpatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2009, 08:12 PM   #18
Arctic Wolf
Connoisseur's Cabinet Member
 
Arctic Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 917
Default

Glad to help out Vanpatt

I'm jealous of your 31 bottles of Port. I would also be pleased if you would post some of your impressions of both your Port and your Rum.

I am into my second cask now experimenting with a double barrel approach. My new cask was filled with bourbon for two weeks and then it held Scotch for 8 weeks. The taste was quite harsh so I moved the scotch over to my older cask which had held Port Graham 7 grape for two weeks. I'm hoping the Port enhancement will soften the flavor. I will probably leave the scotch in for an equal 8 week period.

This brings me to a point which you may want to consider. Your cask will be raw with all the harshest tanins still in the wood. I would be very tempted to leave water in the cask for a longer time period to draw the harshest tanin out. For most rum (and whiskey other than bourbon) distillers like to use two year old barrels that have previously held sherry or bourbon. These barrels are softened and have had the strongest bitter flavours removed in their first use.

I know that with my first cask experimentation I am most pleased with the flavours that have been drawn out on my third and higher bottlings after my cask had previously held liquid for four months. I think this is because I am no longer getting those harsh flavours. Now Rum and Port are far more rubust in flavour than Scotch so your experiences may be different. But I hope you let me know how things go.
Arctic Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2009, 12:49 AM   #19
Vanpatt
Senior Member
 
Vanpatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 216
Default

I'll certainly keep you posted Arctic Wolf, I think you've convinced me to initially spend more time curing the cask with water to mellow out the first batch; I don't want to ruin or to cut down the time in the barrel for the first port batch I'm putting in.

Another thought I had was to purchase a barrel made of french oak and try a first batch of French brandy (cognac is a little too expensive/risky for a first try) in it first and then try a rhum agricole in it in the method they use in the French carribean islands. Our selection is really poor here for rhum's especially on the lower end of the price and aging scale so that will make it challenging.

We have a barrel maker here in the BC called Okanagan Barrel Works that sells French Oak Barrels but they are for the most part large casks so I'd like to know if anyone has a lead on smaller French oak barrels in North America?
Vanpatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2009, 09:15 PM   #20
sailor22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 86
Default

KrustyKrab - in your bottle set ups when you varied the toast and char did you keep the size of the wood standard? What sort of char vs size ratio worked out best?
I'm interested in how the Apple wood changed the flavor - I have use Wild Cherry from my property and it is much subtler and slower infusing than Oak. None of the sweet flavors I would expect but a softer char flavor that seems better suited to Rum.
Have you had good results with any other woods?
sailor22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Rum Lovers @ the Ministry of Rum > Sugar Cane Spirits > Rum questions/discussions

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old Rum Barrels For Sale LeMJP Other discussion 5 11-14-2010 07:11 PM
Flor de Cana 18: the barrels leave their mark Milicent Rum questions/discussions 24 08-28-2009 11:43 AM
rum barrels gmarket Rum questions/discussions 8 02-15-2009 04:50 PM
Barrels of Rum Edward Hamilton Other discussion 3 07-02-2008 03:21 PM


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 01:27 AM.


Rum Chat
Recent Posts
Havana Club
posted by Berbician
Santa Teresa Bicentenario
posted by Fabio
Need a good 151 rum in Virginia
posted by DanielStauffer
Rum flavor
posted by DanielStauffer
Whats the best Anejo ?
posted by DanielStauffer
Looking for info on old Appleton Rum
posted by MstrBlackwood
New members
posted by luirod
Last month this site was viewed more than 750,000 times by the best people in the world - those who appreciate rum.
Ministry of Rum on
facebook link
Follow @Ed_Hamilton on

vB ver 3.8.6 Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content on this forum copyright 1995 - 2015 Ministry of Rum.