Is it?

[angelsword]

Is it agricole if made somewhere besides the French Islands?

[RobertBurr]

in the French definition of rhum, if made from fresh cane, call it agricole; if made from molasses, call it industriel.

A description or classification is different from an legal standard. If made in Martinique according to the strict standards established in that territory, it can carry the AOC label by law.

My understanding is that the French would classify all their rums as agricole or industriel, depending on the distinction of being made from sugar cane juice or molasses.

[Lew Barrett]

What is 10 Cane....really?:D

[Tiare]

Well, its not an Agricole even though its made from sugar cane juice.
A.O.C. is a French government regulation only used for rums produced to the standards in the French West Indies and 10 cane is produced in Trinidad.
10 cane is made from the first pressing of their sugar cane.
And even though it looks like its only not an Agricole because it cannot have the AOC mark i think its more to it, that has to do with their process in making it. Maybe someone can explain the process in the making of 10 cane?

[angelsword]

AOC would only be applicable from the French Islands, but I have a bottle from Mauritius labeled agricole as well. Since 10 Cane is made from cane juice perhaps it should be considered agricole as well.

[Tiare]

I just went back to see if there isn`t any older threads concerning the 10 cane and i found this one:

http://www.ministryofrum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17

[RumBarPhilly]

Why cant we just give all these rums (rhums) one more broader classification and call them Sugar Cane Rums. Included in Sugar Cane rums would be anything distilled from sugar cane juice or guarapo... Rhum Agricoles, Cachacas, 10 Cane, and any other rum made similar style.

Regardless of where it comes from, the cane juice must be processed within 24 hours of its harvesting, and thus a more expensive, boutique spirit is created.

Whether its distilled at a higher ABV and brought down with fresh water, or nothing added, or its made in Trinidad, Martinique, Guadaloupe, or Brazil...

[RumBarPhilly]

...and I hope I didnt offend anybody with that last posts as I know people appreciate the AOC system, and Im not knocking that at all, its great that a nation is able to standardize their products in order to promote more premium products. Other countries have similar standards, but not to the level Martinique does. (i.e. Puerto Rico's rum must be aged minimum 1 year)

[Tiare]

No hard feelings at all.....;)

[angelsword]

Why cant we just give all these rums (rhums) one more broader classification and call them Sugar Cane Rums. Included in Sugar Cane rums would be anything distilled from sugar cane juice or guarapo... Rhum Agricoles, Cachacas, 10 Cane, and any other rum made similar style.

The problem here is that really all rum comes from cane. For instance, I cannot just called one of my rums Sugar Cane Rum. I find it necessary to add the word, MATURED to distinguish the manner in which the cane is utilized. Agricole and Industrial (a derogatory term only used by the agricole people) already have a certain interpretations. Martinique has tried to limit that meaning even further with AOC.

[angelsword]

...and I hope I didnt offend anybody with that last posts as I know people appreciate the AOC system, and Im not knocking that at all, its great that a nation is able to standardize their products in order to promote more premium products. Other countries have similar standards, but not to the level Martinique does. (i.e. Puerto Rico's rum must be aged minimum 1 year)
I don't want to knock the AOC system. But I do want to be able compete by making my own AGRICOLE rum. We are arranging this with a sugar mill that presses fresh cane.

[Hank Koestner]

I think, simply put, there are French agricoles and then other rums that are made from fresh cane juice. The AOC mark stands for stringent regulations on how the rhum is processed and distilled. This seperates it from other rums that are also made from fresh cane juice. Is French the first language on Maurtius? It could be that in translation all french rhums made or blended from fresh cane juice is called agricole. The difference is that Martinique demands the AOC. So, maybe what we are discussing here is this: Anyone can make rhum agricole, but to carry the AOC is must be from Martinique.
Guadeloupe makes some fine agricoles, but they do not have the AOC. But I believe they insist on it saying distilled and bottled at a specific distillery on the label. So, my friend, call it rhum agricole, your just using the French word for it.
Based on your other offerings, I will look forward to this!!

[RumBarPhilly]

I can agree that it SHOULD all be called Rhum Agricole, but if the people of Martinique get offended when people throw the word around, is it valid?

Does anybody have the actual guidelines for the AOC? does it say in there, anywhere, that a rhum under the guidelines of the Appelation d'Origin Controlee is also known as a Rhum Agricole (properly)? If so, then I guess Rhum Agricole would only be Martinique AOC rhums. If not, then Daniel, my friend, you can make a Rhum Agricole all you want... just dont go throwing an AOC stamp on it! :)

[Edward Hamilton]

Is it agricole if made somewhere besides the French Islands?

Not really. Rhum Agricole isn't like cognac or champagne where it has to be made in a certain place but the French only recognize rhum agricole as being made in the French islands. They are working on protecting the name of their product which takes time.

If you make rum from sugar cane juice it probably isn't going to taste like rhum agricole and I wouldn't consider it to be so.

[Lew Barrett]

I just went back to see if there isn`t any older threads concerning the 10 cane and i found this one:

http://www.ministryofrum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17

Thank you Tiare.

[angelsword]

Is French the first language on Maurtius? It could be that in translation all french rhums made or blended from fresh cane juice is called agricole.
Yes. French is the dominant language there, though English is the official language.

[angelsword]

Not really. Rhum Agricole isn't like cognac or champagne where it has to be made in a certain place but the French only recognize rhum agricole as being made in the French islands. They are working on protecting the name of their product which takes time.

If you make rum from sugar cane juice it probably isn't going to taste like rhum agricole and I wouldn't consider it to be so.
If it tastes the same then what is the point?
To me it sounds like the Martinique rum industry is saying that all rums are either Agricole or Industrial and only they can make Agricole.

[RobertBurr]

not to overkill the distinction, but...

it's one thing to describe rhums that are not industriel as agricole in general, another thing to write the words "rhum agricole" on the bottle. One might assume that a product with the phrase rhum agricole on the bottle was made in a French territory from sugar cane juice.

If an American company made a rum product from fresh cane juice, what sense would it make to label it with a French designation?

[angelsword]

not to overkill the distinction, but...

it's one thing to describe rhums that are not industriel as agricole in general, another thing to write the words "rhum agricole" on the bottle. One might assume that a product with the phrase rhum agricole on the bottle was made in a French territory from sugar cane juice.

If an American company made a rum product from fresh cane juice, what sense would it make to label it with a French designation?

Maybe it is only my own observations, but it appears to me that perhaps the term "agricole" has been sufficiently used within the lexicon to be considered descriptive of the broad category.

How about "Texas Agricole"?

[Hank Koestner]

Agricole is the french word for rhum made from sugar cane juice. It does kind of belong to them.I agree that any rum called agricole could be easily taken for granted that it was made in the French Islands. But, that being said, it is still a confused issue. It is the AOC that matters, because their are rhums blended outside of the French Islands that do not carry the AOC, but are blended from agricole. Remember the discussion about Chaffe Coeur? Guadaloupe does not carry the AOC, but the rhum from that Island is recognized as agricole. And, it is very good agricole. It would be much easier if all rhum from the French Islands carried the AOC, and they had some sort of copyright or something making the name only thiers.
Then, Ed and Robert make a good point- this rum would be your expression of a rum made from sugar cane juice,and might not taste like agricole. You probably would not want it confused.

All this thinking has worn me out...........I am going to go pour a glass of rhum agricole and smoke a cigar!!

[Tiare]

All this thinking has worn me out...........I am going to go pour a glass of rhum agricole and smoke a cigar!!

Your`re doing so right..i`m pouring one too but without the cigar..:D