Top 25 Cigars! What about Rum?

[KINGSTON]

Cigar Aficionado just released it's Annual Top 25 Best Cigars of 2007. Are their any publications that do this with Rum? Are their any Magazines that even cover Rum in great length?

Ed, Have you ever thought about releasing a Bi-Monthly Magazine? I know every one who has had a chance to read your books have really enjoyed them.

Live listed the Top 10 from Cigar Aficionado

1. Padron 1926 (Nicaragua)
2. Fuente Fuente Opus X (Dominican)
3. Monticristo (Habana)
4. Oliva Serie V (Nicaragua)
5. Ashton VSG (Dominican)
6. Cohiba Maduro 5 (Habana)
7. Illusione Cg:4 (Honduras)
8. Hoyo de Monterrey Excalibur Maduro (Honduras)
9. CAO Vision (Dominican)
10. Dunhill Signed Range (Nicaragua)

[RumBarPhilly]

If there was a rum publication, I would own 3-4 subscriptions myself.

Who wants to start one??

[Hank Koestner]

The only cigars off that list I have not tried are 2, 9 and 10. I do wish there was a publication devoted strictly to rum and anything associated with rum.

[KINGSTON]

(Hank)
2. Classic cigar. Full bodied earthy and hints of leather.
9. Top notch Medium bodied meaty smoke with a well aged character.
10. Medium bodied cigar with a stout Earthy finish.
All Three are worth checking out!

Somebody could even do a E Magazine, sort of like Cigar Insider from CA. I would love to see that!

[Edward Hamilton]

I'd like to publish something about rum in a magazine form, but it is a real paradox as the most current and accurate information is published online. I do see a subscription magazine as an addendum to this site in the future. I don't really want to waste more trees for paper, and fuel to deliver more of those trees across the country when this medium is so much faster and costs everyone less to boot.

[Lew Barrett]

Of the Cubans, I'm a fan of the Monty 2, but then, who isn't. That, and the Punch Punch are two of Cuba's most reliable models in my experience. The Siglo IV's another favorite of mine but they can be inconsistent, as can many of the larger sizes in many Cuban brandings, so I've become a corona gorda/grande and robusto fan over the years. I've been non plussed by more double coronas than any other size over the last ten years or so. But when they are good, oh man!
Another sometimes spectacular Cuban than can nonetheless disappoint is Rafael Gonzales' Lonsdale, but a good one is terrific.

I am liking the Saint Luis Rey Corona Especial as a daily affordable smoke just now. I agree about the Olivas; great smoke.

I like sweeter rum with cigars, possibly because I like strong cigars. You all know of course that Davidoff didn't recommend smoking and drinking together, suggesting that each pleasure should be taken in turn. His advice is heeded more in the breech than the keeping, but not infrequently I prefer to smoke a good cigar without anything but a glass of water standing by, and vice versa on the rum side. Sometimes, not;)

[Count Silvio]

If there was a rum publication, I would own 3-4 subscriptions myself.

Who wants to start one?? Yeah I'm game.

[Matusalem]

I'd love to see is someone make a list of the best 25 rums and wake up a week later and still feel confident those were thee 25 best with absolutely no substitution or second guesses. As long as I've been into whisky, I've tried a couple of times but came to my own conclusion that there's simply too much latitude and human nature involved for me to define "best" for any period longer than "right now" with any sense of certainty. Poor or not to my liking, good, very good, excellent etc. are about as far as I go with ratings. At most I can say what I prefer and sometimes even get creative enough to explain why I prefer a certain item over another.

Cigar Aficionado is a victim of it's own success IMHO. 8%-10% cigar related content, high vs. low ratings of cigars often mysteriously coinciding with amount of ads paid for and displayed in the magazine itself... a forum that often spends time defending itself against Don Quixotes (sp?) who continuously question the integrity and agenda of the magazine and forum itself (rightfully so in some instances, IMHO).

A publication would be great. I don't know Edward that well at all but I have a hard time envisioning him leading something that follows in the steps of a cA. Money is nice but it isn't everything.

JMHO

[Lew Barrett]

I agree with you. I stopped reading CA years ago. It's not that I've got anything against them (quite the contrary), it's as much a question of how far my interests (and seemingly theirs) can go discussing cigars. CA is a lifestyle magazine so in the end it becomes as much about motorcycles, wrist watches, and whatever the editors believe defines the good life with cigars being the central consumer item they report on. If I want a motorcycle magazine, I'll buy Bike or Cycle World. Magazines with overview articles about high end cars, polo mallets and cigar personalities become tedious for me and I'd think, for those who publish them. The central topic is....um....limited. There's nothing wrong with any of this, but a forum like this provides that plus inter-activity, and, like most good focused sites, community. You can't get that in a magazine and it's what keeps one coming back.

I'd see a rum periodical as much as a newsletter as a magazine. Relatively high subscription costs would offset a limited but direct focus on the topic and support a limited advertising policy. If it gets too big you're going to have lawn croquet articles. That's the nature of the beast.

Obviously I don't know Ed at all either, but if there was to be such a thing, I'm sure he'd be the guy to lead the charge. One could actually do this as an online magazine; there are precedents, if that was a thought.

ymmv, imho, etc.

[Matusalem]

Sorry gents. I guess I came off as a doomsday-ist.:eek:

I use to be receptive to cA back in the day as they say...(which it became known as cA for its growing lack of emphasis on cigars and all about Aficionadoism). I guess I had a funny flash of Ed doing things quite a bit differently (like not defending the integrity of Martinique's Agricole industry for fear of upsetting a molasses farmer or someone else contributing a few bucks to promote a product or technique he wouldn't inflict upon any true friends etc.).:p

Aside from becoming pessimistic at the sound of Marvin Shanken's printing-press, I think Ed had it right in that unless you're publication is more about the non-dynamic aspects and limited to some degree in scope, much of what comes to print these days is slightly dated - to so dated it's no longer relevant.

[Count Silvio]

Interesting points here about Cigar Aficionado. If I'd start a magazine it would be much like the Modern Drunkard Magazine. Released every month or two months available online for free but also as a paper copy. I don't believe this kind of a magazine could be published more often than that.

[Matusalem]

If I'd start a magazine it would be much like the Modern Drunkard Magazine. Released every month or two months available online for free but also as a paper copy. I don't believe this kind of a magazine could be published more often than that.Not to kill anyone's ideas or dreams or enthusiasm.

What I meant as far as relevance being easier to manage and maintain on-line... was I see these scenarios happen often... like say an article is being prepped on a distillery and the theme is one of that of the story: "The Little Engine That Could (I think I can, I think I can)..." and at least part of the storyline is aimed at highlighting the distillery being a small family owned or close knit group who refuse to buy into the mainstream big business mentality while refusing to play or involve itself in the big company politics of the industry. Before you can get the article off the still hot press, Diageo moves in and swallows up the company. There goes the little fish at the fish fry angle to that story. As they say - that story would be, "so yesterday".

On-line you can edit, adding footnotes etc. after the fact or remove what's no longer relevant including the whole publication if necessary. The main drawback to putting it on-line is we can all throw tomatoes at it and the author practically in real time! Did you catch that, Ed?:p

[Hank Koestner]

All of this being well said, I think an on line publication is the best way to go.
CA is just a magazine. Thier top 25 is what it is. Yours could be different, so could mine. Some of the cigars they recommend are excellent, some are not-
once again depending on a person's personal liking. And ,we all know that only a very small percentage of people can afford to live "the good life" as they portray. It is a shame that only a small amount of the content is on cigars, and much less if anything on spirits. I think Ed and this Ministry could provide a rum focused on line publication that would be excellent. It is hard to find a publication that is readily available that is devoted to just spirits, excluding wine.

On another note, I would invite Lew to look at our rum and cigar thread, and toss his opinions in the mix. I usually try a new cigar on it's own with just water, if I like it , I buy more and might attempt a pairing. With other cigars I smoke frequently, I am more apt to have a pour along with the smoke. I too find that sweeter rums tend to compliment a strong cigar, and I tend towards a full bodied smoke myself. One of the things I love to do is try to pair cigars with rum. It gets even more interesting with a medium or more mild cigar, as rum can really overwhelm them.
The Oliva V's seem to be good rum cigars, as are the San Cristobal from Ashton. I really enjoy Don Pepin's blends.
As far as the C's, I love the Juan Lopez 2, and the Cohiba VI is excellent right now, as are Monte Petite Edmundo and Edmundo.

[Lew Barrett]

I'm on my way over Hank!

Added: But where am I going? I searched around a bit but can't find the thread:confused:

[Don Piero]

Cigar Aficionado is a victim of it's own success IMHO. 8%-10% cigar related content, high vs. low ratings of cigars often mysteriously coinciding with amount of ads paid for and displayed in the magazine itself... a forum that often spends time defending itself against Don Quixotes (sp?) who continuously question the integrity and agenda of the magazine and forum itself (rightfully so in some instances, IMHO).
JMHO

I'm bugged by CA. The fact that there are only 4 Cuban Cigars in the top 25 blows me away. The top 25 cigars in the world all come from Cuba, there isn't one NC (non-cuban cigar) that I have had that can compare to a Cuban from start to finish. CA caters to the producers who spend dollars on advertising. Cubans do not pay for advertising.

Belonging to two cigar boards that mock CA when a silly list like this comes out may magnify my bias against this magazine. Serious, hard core cigar smokers are only interested in Cuban Cigars. See article below.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2007/1224/095_print.html

Collectors Guide
That's Amore
Bernard Condon 12.24.07

For Salvatore Parisi, there is nothing more beloved than Cuban cigars-- 60,000 of them.

Eight friends gather on a recent night at a private home, surrounded by pine trees, in a gated community outside Rome. Smoke curls about the study, a Victorian-style room packed with tooled leather books, gilt-framed oil paintings, busts, overstuffed chairs. Tonight Ubi Maior, a new cigar club, is convening. The host, Salvatore Parisi, a 52-year-old psychologist, is the only member who hasn't struck a match. Instead he initiates a visitor into the art of smoking a Cuban stogie. Step one: adoration.

First out of the humidor is a 25-year-old Dunhill Estupendo--anything but stupendous looking, though it is said to be worth $1,200. Parisi purses his lips and plants a kiss on it before returning it to its reliquary. Next, a fistful of pre-Castro cigars in plastic, resembling shriveled old men too small for their pants. They date from an age when hundreds of brands, instead of the 30 officially sanctioned now, competed on the island in capitalist frenzy. They bear names like Por Larranaga and Maria Guerrero, and when Parisi holds one to the light you can see a little green from age has discolored the band. Then he leans over a second humidor, straightens up and holds a cigar aloft with all ten fingers, like a priest raising the Host. "This is the Dunhill Cabinetta," he says. More kisses now, twice blessed. Cost: $200 apiece. Parisi strokes the cigar with a finger. "Like silk," he whispers. The room seems to go silent. Then a heavyset friend in the crowd reaches for the punch line: "Let's smoke it." Parisi glowers.

In his workaday life Parisi runs the Scuola Romana Rorschach, an institute in Rome. He teaches the techniques of reading personality quirks and preoccupations from what people say they see in ink blots, providing analysis to the Italian courts and to the Vatican, which wants clues to a person's state of mind before deciding on a marriage annulment. You can imagine what Parisi daydreams about--even as he ponders questions on behalf of the Apostolic See. "I'm not sure if God exists," he muses. "But if He does, I'm sure He smokes cigars--only Cubans."

Married and childless, Parisi spends nearly all his free time with cigars, meeting with smoking clubs, planning trips to Cuba to buy them, inspecting cigars, touching them, occasionally even smoking them. And when he does so, it's preferably alone, on the couch in front of his fireplace. "I never smoke [merely] out of habit," he says. That would be intensely disrespectful to his stash of 60,000 Cuban cigars, worth, perhaps, $2.5 million. Many of them he keeps in a roughly 35-square-foot, mahogany-paneled room in his basement, which houses boxes of cigars piled on shelves to the ceiling and in columns rising a few feet off the floor. Just outside the room sits a 140-pound bale of Cuban tobacco. Among his favorites: 15 Cohiba Behikes, which have doubled in value in the past year to $750 each.

By his own admission Parisi is a hoarder. Easy with a laugh or an arm around the shoulder, the man insists on having everything just so. That's true of his bespoke sports jackets, shirts, shoes, boxer underwear. What he likes he buys in bulk for fear it will run out. A dresser in his closet is stuffed with his favorite red leather gloves, of which he wears one pair once a year. When rumor had it that the maker of his favorite English lavender soap was going out of business, Parisi ordered dozens of boxes. He is an unapologetic monarchist (Italy hasn't had a king since before Mussolini) and keeps a photo of Queen Elizabeth in his office.

His love affair with Cubans began when he was 22, with an H. Upmann Aromatico he bought out of curiosity from some Russians in a Rome market. He smoked it, then ran back and cleaned the place out. Soon after, he tried a Davidoff 4000. "From that moment I was obsessed," he says. In those days Cuban cigars were hard to come by in Rome, but travelers coming from abroad could bring in 50 each. Parisi pressed stewardesses and friends to buy for him. He developed a taste for the "softer, more delicate" flavor of cigars aged for three years or even decades.

When Parisi took his first trip to Cuba in 1996, newly made "fresh" cigars were hot, and so he was able to load up on old favorites on the cheap. On return visits he started collecting old cigar molds (he now owns 200) and old books, pamphlets and dissertations, going door to door in Havana to buy them up--until word spread of the crazy gringo and prices shot up. On one early trip he joined a Cuban friend on a long, bumpy ride to the Santa Clara region to taste a new kind of cigar. At 11 p.m. the two pulled up at a dark house with a dirt floor and no electricity--"a place I wouldn't even put my dog," Parisi recalls. (Make that 13 dogs, all dachshunds.) A wrinkled old man came shuffling toward Parisi in the candlelight. He held out a crude, lumpy cigar: a Pelo de Oro ("Golden Hair"). Love at first puff.

To many smokers a Pelo de Oro seems overpowering. Parisi's common-law wife, Susanna Massimi, once broke out in hives when she touched its leaves. (She, for her part, is not allowed to wear perfume or put cream on her hands when entering the basement sanctorum.) Dark, resinous and furry like sage, the Pelo de Oro plant is prone to disease and easily infects other crops. It's largely for that reason that the Castro regime limits its distribution and that people talk about it in whispers. Though the strain is now grown in other countries--Costa Rica, for example--it's still largely a cigar for Cuban campesinos. "When I go back to Cuba, I keep looking for that cigar," says Parisi, quick to add that he never trades or resells them. He has rollers in Havana make him cigars with Pele de Oro tobacco and, in the 50-odd trips he's taken to Cuba since that drive in the country, he's ordered more and more and has had bands made for them bearing his name.

On his trips Parisi occasionally makes time for other activities, like teaching at a psychiatric hospital in Havana. He also spent two months in a cigar factory in the capital, learning how to roll. On later trips he brought plant workers anti-inflammatories and asthma drugs. "There were no dentists, no doctors," he recalls. Once he attended a meeting there of La Cumbre ("The Summit"), a club of elite cigar aficionados, including a Moscow clothes retailer, a Chicago collector of pre-Castro cigars and a cigar merchant from the Cayman Islands.

At Ubi Maior the group breaks for dinner, a buffet of porchetta (pork stuffed with rosemary and olive oil), pasta fagioli, slabs of salty pecorino cheese and rum cake. Then out come the cigars again. Parisi is still not smoking. Finally, a Marcello Mastroianni look-alike in narrow pants and thick glasses emerges from downstairs with a new cigar. "Ah, questo va bene," Parisi exclaims.

The Pelo de Oro has arrived. Parisi runs his eyes down it, then a finger. He grabs a magnifying glass and points to a diagonal edge of leaf tucked inside the rounded mouth end of the cigar. A craftsman's touch, he says, so the leaf doesn't unravel after it is clipped for smoking. He cuts the tip, lights the cigar and hands it to a guest. The air thickens with a deep, rich smoke.

"Smoking a Havana cigar is like having sex with a real woman," says Parisi. "If the parallel seems ridiculous, you don't know Havanas--or you don't know real women."

[Don Piero]

Sorry Rum lovers, but CA touches a nerve with me.

Ed, a rating book with tasting notes similar to Michael Jackson's Malt Whisky Companion or Jim Murray's Whisky Bible in pocket form would be ideal to have as a reference book. It has made both these writers Icons in the Whisky industry.

Whisky Magazine has 8 issues annually ($50 per one year subscription) with informative whisky related articles and whisky tasting notes (about 24-30 bottles rated in every issue)at the back of every issue. I like this format.

[KINGSTON]

Piero,
I could not disagree with you more. Do the research Cubans are falling so behind Dominicans, Nicaraguans & Hondurans. Their quality control is about 30years behind NC's. In fact just last year they started using draw testers & Freezers. They are starting to make larger ring gauges (American Influence). They even released the Cohiba 5 (Cuban Maduro), That comes from the high demand for Maduros. If they are so ggod why do they keep trying copy NC's. Cubans sales have fell over the last 5 years. They are the Dinosaurs of the Cigar Industry. They even announced last year that they were going to start growing new seed strains of tobacco. I think their lucky for getting any cigars in the Top 25 of anybodies list.
But- Thats just my opinon.
Cuban Rum isn't what is used to be.
Cuban Cigars are not what they use to be.
The good thing for us...............
Thats why their is a never ending supply of cigars & rum for all of us to enjoy. Because we all enjoy somthing different. BUT, I would never say, "Nicaragua makes the best Cigars". Just as I would never say, "Guatemala makes the best Rum". I would say that Padrons are great Cigars from Nicaragua or Zacapa Rum from Guatemala is great. But to say all Cubans Cigars are great? Their all different. Their made in different facilitys. Their all different flavours mild, medium or full. Some are well reguarded some are not. I always question when some one makes a broad statement about products. Like when some tell's me the only good Italian Food is in Italy. Tell that to a 5th generation Italian-American proudly serving his Familys Recipes in a Little Italy dive in New York. Just my 2 cents.

[Lew Barrett]

The "boom" had a hugely negative effect on the way I look at many brands today. Take CAO and Ashton for instance; they were building crap ten years ago. Like everyone else, I bought models that were rated by CA in the hope they would be great domestic smokes. By and large, my experiments were failures. So many highly touted cigars burned sideways, or just tasted plain lousy. Big name producers were throwing garbage onto the market. That really soured me on many of the brands that are well regarded today, and caused me to find alternate routes to buy the real stuff. As shoddy as Cuban production could be, if one hit on the right combination, nothing that was available here could match up. I think that's still true, although what has changed is that other producers have vastly improved their products since then.

I don't smoke nearly as much as I used to, so I have allowed my reserves to shorten a bit. At one point, the only domestic cigars I would smoke were Excalibur III (M). Today, I find that model less enjoyable (me, or their blend?) and keep Olivas and St. Luis Rey Corona Especials as my "regular" smoke. I work off my reserves when I want something special, and probably have a three year or more supply on hand at my current rate of consumption. So, cigars are an occasional pleasure for me and not a daily event. However, I find Cuban quality in general to have improved recently along with the better domestics. But it's still possible to pick a loser in both categories. My belief though, is that with the Cubans, a bad smoke is almost always related to construction quality. Even Cuban counterfeits can be enjoyable. On the other hand, you still have to be very careful when picking through the domestics. You can't believe a word of what's said by the mail order houses or through advertising. Crappy cigars abound, as they always have. So, what I believe is that through it all, the Cubans still have the best soil and conditions for making great cigar tobacco, but that their construction practices still probably lag the industry a bit.
Cigars are like rum in that they are a third world product by and large. I'm not sure how much technology (as opposed to conditions and craftsmanship) really enters into it. The Cubans haven't relied on pesticides, for instance. Do I prefer Cubans? Yeah. The good ones still set the standard for me. Are there other great cigars? Indeed. And frequently the others provide better value with the no-brainer benefit of availability as well as more generally reliable construction (for the premium brands). But in my view, the Cubans still set the standards. Recent brushes with Cubans tends to make me think their quality is on the rise as well, as I would suspect it needs to be if they are to compete. Until or unless Cuban products are legally and easily available in the US though, there's really no way for an American consumer to consider the products as either good value or a safe and sensible buy and that proposition has a lot to do with perceptions of Cuban product and value.


I've never had an Opus X by the way, so I can't compare it to my other standards.

[Hank Koestner]

I am going to add my 2 cents, but I don't have time to comment now. I will add my thoughts soon.

Lew, the rum and cigar thread is under the rum/ discussions forum.

[Lew Barrett]

I am going to add my 2 cents, but I don't have time to comment now. I will add my thoughts soon.

Lew, the rum and cigar thread is under the rum/ discussions forum.

Still looking Hank. By the way, I re-read my post (above) and can't decide if I agree with myself, or not:D

[Hank Koestner]

My friends, first let me make a point that we have not stated. CA is an American magazine. It is geared towards cigars the we can smoke legally in the US. It would do us no good to have a top 25 list if it was all Cuban cigars. I love Cubans, and there is a uniqueness to them that cannot be found in other cigars. But, are there other cigars that I would consider equal with Cubans.......yes. Equal but different. I, too, take issue with CA Mag. We all know what the magazine is. All publications must pander to thier advertizers in some fashion. But I must say, thier ratings have guided me to some great cigars. And I must say this also.......not all Cubans are created equal. There are some blends I have tasted that were just average. If you read European publications, they too agree that there are some incredible non Cubans out there. And they are tougher on thier ratings than others.
Cubans are smoking very well right now, but I have heard more than one complaint about draw issues. It seems worldwide demand is up, as is production. So, some are rolled a little off.
Lifting the embargo might be the worst thing that could happen to Cuban cigars, unless they can meet the demand, which would be HUGE.
Lastly, many of the non Cuban cigars are being made by Cubans. These men and women have been working with tobacco and soil for 30 plus years. Much of the tobacco is from Cuban seed. Many of these families are Cuban expatriates, who have a love and family tradition for tobacco that goes back decades. It has taken time, but they are making some fine cigars.
Do I prefer Cubans? No, but I do love them. Now for my last two thoughts;
When you go to the countries where the cigars are made, what are they drinking with them? RUM!!!
It always astounds me how the so called tasting experts poo poo rum in lieu of scotch and cognac.(although I do enjoy both from time to time)
And, if I could only find a way to sneak into that 60,000 cigar basement humidor........... ;)

[Lew Barrett]

I've been awaiting your comments Hank.

Some years ago, while it was till in print, I picked up a copy of Davidoff's book. I hear it's a collectible in it's own right now. I have to say, it was a bit pompous, but the man was one of the premiere authorities on the subject of quality in tobacco. By the way, I find little value in the line that carries his name today, but that's neither here nor there. Anyway, his comment was that the soils and situations of the Vuelta Abajo were unique in all the world, and that try as they might carrying seeds hither and yon, no other region of the world was so uniquely positioned to grow great cigar tobacco.
It is matter of geography in his view.
I agree with all your points, every one, but I have to say that when I do get a great Cuban, it will define what I like about smoking better than anything else. The Cubans can construct a cigar that has tremendous power and still great refinement and taste, and that's something I appreciate greatly, but I have had wonderfully enjoyable moments smoking Honduran, Nicaraguan and occasional Dominican cigars, and I believe the Q.C. issues that characterize Habanos have been largely dealt with by those exporters. I don't remember the last time I smoked a Jamaican cigar that I enjoyed, though. Too tame!
Inconsistency and tightness of draw remains the single largest issue that puts the Cubans behind their competitors, but not all cigars are created equal, and not all great cigars are Cuban. Among the Cubans there are those I like and those I like less, but I still find that to my tastes, when the Cubans get it right, they are the best. I stay away from the larger sizes and find I do better. Despite the press that double coronas and Churchills are only rolled by the most experienced, I've had the most disappointments with those sizes.

[Hank Koestner]

Very good points. I will have to be completely honest here as I have had more time to ponder the issue. I would have to say, pointing to my best smoking experiences, it would be with Cuban cigars. I think I am trying to make part of my argument based on my frustration that Cuban cigars are not available to us in the US. I wrote that the comparison was equal, but different. And, that difference would put the Cubans on top. But, I will say this much, If there was a true list of the top 25 cigars in the world, which would be debatable based on the personal tastes of those doing the rating,
the list would be a mixture of Cubans and others. I imagine that if Cubans were available here in the US the CA top 25 list(which started this whole conversation) would probably list 12 to 15 Cuban cigars, and they would carry the top 5 spots at least. I think they try to base thier ratings a little more on what is available in the US.

[Don Piero]

Thanks for your comments gentlemen, I always prefer to read than write. Hank, you are a lucky man living in warm Florida. I have some great rums right now, but can't really enjoy them with my cigars due to the cold weather here in Toronto.

[Lew Barrett]

Same for me Don Piero. The rain and cold make smoking outdoors impossible, and smoking indoors, while possible, is no longer permissible, or should I say
Per-Missus.-ible. Domestic tranquility is worth a lot. If I want to smoke, I'm remanded to my boat, but that makes it a bit harder to do on a whim.

[Hank Koestner]

I am spoiled living in Florida. I only smoke outside, and it is never too cold to have a smoke. I really love it here, and I have empathy for your cold winters. I would go nuts.

[Lew Barrett]

Understood, but the payoff is when summer comes. It's like taking off a tight pair of shoes, and it guarantees box time for the 'gars. I'm out of other benefits. Oh, we rarely have water shortages here :eek:

[Don Piero]

The excitement has just hit me after just reviewing the past comments. I leave for Varadero Cuba Tuesday morning:).

I have packed a few cigars including a Bolivar Gold Medal, PSD#4, H.Upmam Mag 46 and a Monty Edmundo. These will keep me going untill I hit the stores.

Wish I had some extra mules to help with my purchases:D.

[Hank Koestner]

He-Haw! He-Haw! (that is a mule, by the way)
Enjoy your trip Don and godspeed. I do envy you just a little.
Enjoying all those great cigars!

[Matusalem]

Speaking of books, any of you invest in Min Ron NEE's Encyclopedia... sometimes referred to as the Bible etc. with regards to Cuban cigars?

[Hank Koestner]

I almost bought it, but I believe it was published quite awhile ago, and there are many new things coming from Cuba. I would prefer a more recent book. I might purchase an inexpensive used copy.

[cigar-aficionado]

I bought a copy when they first came out and find it a really good read, very informative etc. Sometimes get a bit lost when he recommends giving most cigars at least 20 years to age before you smoke them but all in all a really good book to read with a glass of rum and a good cigar

[Matusalem]

I almost bought it, but I believe it was published quite awhile ago, and there are many new things coming from Cuba. I would prefer a more recent book. I might purchase an inexpensive used copy.I believe he was working on an updated volume but it sounds like it (might) have been shelved.
I bought a copy when they first came out and find it a really good read, very informative etc. Sometimes get a bit lost when he recommends giving most cigars at least 20 years to age before you smoke them but all in all a really good book to read with a glass of rum and a good cigarAgreed. The tasting notes and recommendations are his own (not for me to follow). The illustration is extremely high caliber though.

[Rum Runner]

Sorry Gents, for being late in popping in on this.

After reviewing the entire thread I can say I am amazed at the passion I've seen devoted to the differences in taste in cigars..and in particular to those produced in La Habana.

It's been very informative to me to read about your experiences in Puros from La Habana..I think "Puros" is a key here.

I have smoked many cigars over the years...From La Habana I had a source of Cohiba Esplendidos for a time with nary a bad draw. . . As well as Romeo & Julieta Churchills...

I have smoked some WONDERFUL cigars from the DR, Nic, Hon, also.

I think one thing that sets Cubanos apart is that they are "Puros" (made from tobacco grown only in Cuba).

That being said I have had good ones and bad ones. A bad box of Partagas (Cuban )comes to mind.

As you know most if not all cigars made in the DR, or NIC, or HON, are not "Puros" and are a blend of tobaccos. The distinctions have changed somewhat over the years..ie that the DR only produced "mild smokes" and the Nic's and Hon's produced more full bodied smokes.

There are very few "Puros" produced in the DR, NIc and HON...

That is not a bad thing as I see it..Just different from what is coming out of Cuba.

I still remember with fondness for a Temple Hall No. 1 Maduro from Jamaica when Dunhill had the brand many years ago..Sadly, Jamaica is no longer producing cigars..IT WAS SUBLIME WITH AN AGED RUM FROM THE DOCKS OF LONDON .

As for books I have Davidoff's Treaty and The Anwer Bati and Simon Chase Treatise on cigars.

I have always viewed Shanken's C.A. as a version of the "Wine Expectorator" (sic) on steroids.

I am now retiring to the couch with a Puerto Rican "Puro" and a dram of Ron del Barrilito 3 star...Buenas Noches!

[Matusalem]

I think there is hardly a puro in the Dominican. The Fuentes have made some, but the problem is one of the leaf components to make a complete cigar, does not grow well or hasn't been cultivated well in the Dominican Republic.

There are however puros much more common in Nic and Honduras (least there were - I should say I'm not current), but probably not so with many of the more commercial brands we would see more common on the large stage, though.

I tend to agree with you - the "puro" concept makes for a better finished product imho. Cuban coffee, Cuban rum and Cuban music, often make a Cuban cigar just a hair more of an interesting experience, for me. I'm sure it amounts to nothing more than psychological preference or belief.

I dare say there has been some speculation though that at times ( during wrapper or other leaf shortages), that some Habana produced cigars, were not "puros".

[Hank Koestner]

There are some Nic puros on the market, many of them quite good. The best Dom puro I have tasted recently is the Davidoff Special Edition Dom Puro. The Fuentes make a couple that are quite good. Also Litto Gomez of La Flor Dominicana makes some very good Dom. puros. These are some of my favorite non cuban cigars.

[KINGSTON]

A hand full of non-Cuban Puros...........

Padron Anniver. or 1926 (Nica.)
Fuente Opus X (Dom.Rep.)
L.G. by La Flor (Dom.Rep.)
C.A.O. Criollo (Nica.)
Olivia Serie V (Nica.)
Camacho Diploma (Hon.)
Carlos Torano Noventa (Nica.)
La Aurora 100 Anos (Dom.Rep.)
Ashton ESG (Dom.Rep.)
Tatuaje Havana VI Red Label (Nica.)
Don Pepin Garcia Cuban Classic (Nica.)
Te Amo Red Label (Mexico)

[Lew Barrett]

The Olivias are excellent, in my opinion. I'm now off to smoke a Rocky Patel Vintage 1990 Figurado that was a gift from a friend. Film at 11.

OK, smoked the Rocky. Mild cigar, not enough sabor for me, probably nice for a new smoker. Looked terrific though, with an oily dark wrapper. Best part of the deal was the ED 15 which as everyone says, shines with cigars.

[Hank Koestner]

I have tried more than a few Rocky's and found them to be good cigars, just not what I tend to like. Recently, Rocky released the Decade. I have tried the robusto, and it is very good. A departure from his usual blends, much more full bodied, loads of flavor.
Even Bullwinkle loved it!

There are some Oliva V's in my humidor. Excellent cigar, excellent price.

[KINGSTON]

Their is some thing special about somking a Puro. A cigar that is made up of one country's tobacco as well as being rolled in that country. That is one thing that I can say that I respect about Cubans. Once the Embargo comes down we will see Cuban/Dominican and Cuban/Nicaraguan blends. I look forward to smoking those hybrids- The best of each country in one cigar- Those will be some damn good smokes.

[Matusalem]

Have you contemplated the embargo falling and what happens with trademark wars say between namesakes such as Montecristo, Partagas etc. that currently use the same name under different makers in dual markets?

Bound to be a huge litigation period as to who gets to keep and continue to the usage - I'm not so sure there would be any quick paced mixture of Cuban leaf - at least until the legal issues were settled.

[KINGSTON]

For The Dominican versions of Montecristo and Romeo & Juiet among others are being made by Altadis USA. Altadis USA is a division of Atladis Spain they own 50% of the Distribution rights to all the Cubans sold in the world. They have a working relationship with the Cuban Government. So I doubt their will be any issues their. They sort of have Cubas blessing. The most current law suit has been Cohiba. Cohiba is being made by Genernal Cigar (Sweedish Match). They make the dominican version of Cohiba. The Cuban government claims full ownership to that brand. I agree. That brand was made after the Fidel took over. So Cuba owns that logo and name. But brands like Hoyo de Montrey and La Gloria Cubana that General Cigar makes in the Dominican were bought from the Family's that fled Cuba. I belive our courts would up hold those Copyrights. Us in the industry figure their will be two of every Cuban Brand on the market the Dominican version and the Cuban version. Remember their will be a big price difference (The Cuban will more than likly be 3 or 4 times more expensive). If for some reason the Cuban Government can when the rights to the Cohiba name in the USA from General Cigar. More than likely they would turn around and give it to Altadis USA to make a Dominican version. Either way the Cuban Government wins because of kick backs. You will also probably see in the near future other post- Castro brands making it to the US market from Altadis USA like Cuaba & Guantanamera. I work for a brand that luckly dosen't use Cuban Names. Company's like Padron, CAO, Torano, Davidoff, Pepin Garcia, Oliva among many others will be headach free when the embargo comes down. Many brands are all ready planning hybrids with Cuban Tobacco.

[Hank Koestner]

Don Pepin Garcia has already said the best cigar he could blend would be a mix of Cuban leaf and others. My concern is the increase in demand. I hope it does not effect the quality of the Cuban puro. It looks like we still have quite a wait until Cubanos are available here.

[KINGSTON]

Demand will be the biggest issue. The United States is the number 1 consumer of Cigars in the world. Will production increase in Cuba yes? Will quality suffer? for sure. You wil have to just be a little more picky about what brand and sizes of Cubans you buy. I'm excited about the Cigar Company's out side of Cuba getting their hands on Cuban Tobacco and see what they come up with.

[Lew Barrett]

The trademark issues will resolve, but clearly the General Cigar use of the Cohiba branding has been outright fakery in my opinion. I remember all the fanfare and the so-so cigars, too. I agree with Kingston 100% on that one.

I like all the new Cubans I've tried; Cuaba and Trinidad notably. The Cuabas are a fun smoke in fact, and the Trinidads I've smoked have been uniform and excellent. I haven't tried a Guantanamera, but I wouldn't be surprised if, after the hoopla ends, more specific brands for the US market weren't rolled out.
It makes good sense to just sidestep the whole issue until the dust settles.

Personally, and this may be a reflection of my political bent in respect to recognition of Cuba, the originals (branded as Montecristo, Partagas, Punch, et al) were Cuban, and the new cigars made after the revolution were something different. Get my drift? I realize there are two sides to the discussion. I will drop it here.