AOC, why?

[Patapouf]

I've been having difficulty wrapping my head around the designation of AOC rhums from Martinique. Usually, I tend to think that AOC's are there to protect a higher quality product that is the result of specific processes and environmental specific conditions ('terroir').

I do like the idea of clear standards, and such, to insure you're buying the product they say they are producing. But, what does Martinique have over, let's use the example of, Barbancourt in Haiti?

Do the climate and geography do that much of a diffrence in Martinique to deserve a designation to separate its products? Does the process of using cane juice any different than Haiti?

This is not a Barbancourt vs. Martinique rant, I've just never tried any other agricoles from other countries (Guadeloupe, etc). Having tried agricoles from JM, Saint James and from Barbancourt, I'd have no problem putting the last on top of my list of quality and taste. I know preferences are in the eye of the beholder.

My goal isn't to flame upon agricoles from Martinique, as I know I still have tons to try. I'd love to have a dicussion around this subject so that it can grow clearer in my mind.

cheers.gif
Patapouf

[lalie003]

hi!

The AOC is here to establish a minimum quality!

1) The soil where cane grow doesn't matter! It is not like in wine where the climate and soil are very important. When you grow sugare cane you "only" try to have the more sugar potential in the plant. They are different type of cane only a few are allowed in Martinique Because of the volcanic soil they found that only those were good enought to produce sugar.

2) Because of the french history and the island history on producing rhum they decided that only column still were allowed!

This AOC system is to guarantee a minimum quality, and produce true martinique rhum: I am here talking about the tast and the "spirit".


Also the VO(3yrs) VSOP(4yrs) XO(5to7yrs) classification help the consumer to know the age of the rhum. unfortunatly their is nothing after XO... :-(

hope that will help

[Patapouf]

Merci pour l'information Lalie!

How were the prices affected when the AOC was implemented? Granted, inflation can make it difficult to compare prices, I'm under the impression that prices might have risen sharply.

Instead of government controlled AOC's, I'd love to see associations of rum producers created to ensure a minimum quality. Possible members would have follow some specific guidelines to ensure quality to join the association. The ACR could be an example : http://www.truerum.com/exploring/authentic-caribbean-rum.ashx

[Ben]

Hi Patapouf,

I like Barbancourt, but their statement about their rum being straight from sugar cane juice has been questioned in the past. I don't see it in the same type of rum than AOC Martinique rum.

You have to try Rhum Clement VSOP. It is available in New Hampshire for under 40$.

My 2 cents.

[Patapouf]

I like Barbancourt, but their statement about their rum being straight from sugar cane juice has been questioned in the past. I don't see it in the same type of rum than AOC Martinique rum.


I'd have to do a head to head to compare the subtleties, but I'd have to respectfully disagree with you. I find them very similar. It may be my limited experience with agricoles though...


You have to try Rhum Clement VSOP. It is available in New Hampshire for under 40$.


Yes indeed! I've had many recommendations. I'll get my greedy hands on it one day! :)

Thanks for your input.

[bunnyhugs]

I think the main function of the AOC is just to let you know what you're getting.

Someone mentioned above that Martinique agricole rums use a column still. I thought they were pot-distilled?

I also thought Martinique agricole rums were distilled to a relatively low purity (i.e. alcoholic strength) of somewhere around the 75%/vol mark.

That makes Martiniuqe agricoles very different to (for example) Cuban rums, which (at least according to the info put out by Havana Club) are primarily based on extremely pure distillate with an alcoholic strength of over 90% (i.e. they are approaching vodka territory).

A key difference (to my mind perhaps the key difference) between Barbancourt and Martinique agricoles, is that (a little like Cuban rums) Barbancourt is distilled to very high purity. So you have the cane flavors, but they are muted compared to the Martinique agricoles.

Another difference is that at certain times of the year Barbancourt admits to using concentrated sugar cane syrup to bulk out its sugar cane juice. The Martinique agricoles supposedly do not do this, though some claim they do.

One more difference to consider is that Barbancourt use alot of very old and very large barrels - reducing the influence of wood on their rums.

Comes down to personal preference. Some might say Barbancourt lacks flavor. Others might find Martinique agricoles a bit full flavored, even 'rough'.

I like both.

[lalie003]

I checked this morning about the still! and they all have to use column still!

I think pot still are originated from the english cultur!

Prices have gone up since 1996 (birth of the AOC) because they now have to follow a lot of new laws...But I can't really tell you I am 22yrs old so in 96 I was 8 and I didn't by Rhum ;-)

But still you don't have to forget that rhum agricole is born to save the local industry...Traditional rum are made from molasse!

[Patapouf]

Thanks for the info bunnyhugs. I didn't know agricoles from Martinique were distilled so low, especially compared to Barbancourt.


But still you don't have to forget that rhum agricole is born to save the local industry...Traditional rum are made from molasse!

I'm not sure I understand what you meant here. Are you saying the AOC was implemented to save the local rhum industry? I'd love to see statistics showing me that it's working, if that's the case.

[lalie003]

because the sugar industry was declining they decided to save employement and the local market (all the market of the french Island mainly based on the production of raw material and especialy food).

It is why they decided to produce rhum agricole.

I think the only remaining sugar factory is Dillon.

The process of making rum changed to save the local economy...but that is part of the french rhum!

If they didn't act like that I think they would be less distillery one the Island...like other english and spanish island.

cheers

[Patapouf]

because the sugar industry was declining they decided to save employement and the local market (all the market of the french Island mainly based on the production of raw material and especialy food).

It is why they decided to produce rhum agricole.

I think the only remaining sugar factory is Dillon.

The process of making rum changed to save the local economy...but that is part of the french rhum!

If they didn't act like that I think they would be less distillery one the Island...like other english and spanish island.

cheers

Lalie

Thanks for the replies and the great information. AOC's, in my mind, seemed to be a sort of state protectionism for uncompetitive markets, but I also see the positive side, in that it creates a fairly predictable or consistent product. IMHO, I believe that dishonest companies, such as those lying about their products, will eventually be discovered by the consumer and face the 'wrath' of his unhappiness (lower sales). Call me a free market traditionalist... :p

I suppose, too, that a rum producer in Martinique is not limited to produce agricoles nor does it need to follow the strict guidelines. It just won't benefit from the 'protection' of the AOC, although it could be a superior product.

[lalie003]

hope you are right for the market...but when I see that Caroni and Monymusk are closing... :-(

[Jolipapa]

@lalie003
If I'm not wrong pot stills are known in France as "charentais" and were used at first to make Cognac, (as used by Barbancourt).
You find a few "coeur de chauffe" guadeloupéens and martiniquais rhums and the name itself implies they are not from column stills, but from charentais... where you drop the beginning and the end of distillate, just keeping the "heart". They're usually 60°, bottled at barrelproof and are full flavored.
And you have to use only specified varieties of cane to get the AOC.
see: http://www.rhum-agricole.net/site/

@bunnyhugs
I will add that AOC also implies ALL that you won't get i.e. additives for color, taste , etc. and is very coercitive for producers , a good reason for some lobbies in UE and elsewhere (some wine producers from southern hemisphere...*) to try to discard it and replace by a vague regulation allowing to "perfume" even with chemical products.
On the other hand, Guadeloupe and Réunion rhums (but not Guyane) have the right to state "Appellation d'Origine", that is less coercitive, more "terroir" (ground) than strict quality process.
Guadeloupe rhum producers are asking to benefit also of an AOC. (Marie-Galante is considered as "Guadeloupe") but this is long and uneasy to obtain.
Here's a document, but you have to read in french, sorry.
http://www.odeadom.fr/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/plaquette-canne-sucre-rhum_-bat-06_02_2009.pdf

PS
*Remember that recently some UE moguls wanted to allow to produce "rosé" wines by mixing white and red wines. Happily they did not succeed, but guess they'll try again.

[Edward Hamilton]

In as much as the French AOC has been discussed at length in other threads, see some of these links at the bottom of this page, I neglected to comment on this thread when it was started.

In regards to the AOC causing the price of rhum agricole to increase in Martinique, as someone who has spent more than 10 years in and around the French West Indies, it has been my observation that the price of rhum agricole on Martinique and Guadeloupe are more a function of supply and demand than an artificial inflation resulting from the AOC.

While protected by the French government, the AOC was instituted and adopted by the rhum producers themselves as opposed to a regulation imposed by the government. By protected, I mean that the AOC mark is a trademark, enforceable by law. It took the rhum producers on Martinique more than 10 years to adopt their AOC regulations.

Today, all of the rhum producers on Martinique use column stills to produce AOC Martinique rhum agricole. According to the AOC, distillation proof must be less than 75% abv. and the distillate must be made from freshly squeezed sugar cane. If aged, AOC rhum must be aged in barrels of less than 650 liter capacity. The reality is that most aging barrels on Martinique are in the 168 to 200 liter capacity range.

Dillon has not produced sugar in decades and ceased rhum agricole production in 2005. Today only the Galion sugar factory is producing sugar on Martinique.

Like so many other websites, http://www.rhum-agricole.net, is another attempt to shed light on the rhum agricole industry but there are a number of errors on that site. For example, burning sugar cane on Martinique is almost history. There was more cane being burned on Guadeloupe 15 years ago and every year less cane is being burned on that island as well.

As the author of that site points out the Protected Designation of Origin is to protect producers from unfair competition from products that don't originate in the protected region and that aren't produced in accordance with published regulations. Today in the US, I see at least one rhum that claims to be AOC rhum agricole from Martinique, but isn't produced in accordance with the AOC regulations.

In France, pot stills were first used to distill wine into brandy, of which cognac is a specific subset. Armagnac is another subset of brandy, that refers to distillate made from another French region.

The soil on Martinique, Guadeloupe and Haiti are very different. Guadeloupe is actually two islands, Grand Terre and Bas Terre. While Bas Terre is significantly volcanic, Grand Terre is essentially a much older flat plain where the soil is the based on the coral substructure. Volcanic soils contain much more sulfur compounds than coral based soils. The type or species of cane used to make sugar or rum, is selected based on a number of factors including the type of soil, the drainage, which is a function of the geography, and other factors such as disease resistance and irrigation requirements, which are again a function of the geography.

Even on Martinique there are significant differences in the soil, rainfall and the cane grown on the northern, higher volcanic regions and the more arid southern parts of the island.