Is it important to be environmentally conscious?

[Edward Hamilton]

Environmental consciousness is more than looking green. A growing number of distillers are working to reduce the environmental impact of their products. The hot spent yeast waste of the distilling process has a high biological oxygen demand which when processed properly can provide energy for distillation.

Packaging also presents opportunities for distillers to reduce their waste in terms of the weight of their recyclable glass, the amount of recyclable cardboard for packaging and the amount of non-recyclable promotional material such as battery powered gizmos that are not environmentally friendly.

When you assess a rum product, how important is the environmentally consciousness of the producer?

[Scottes]

I had to pick 10%, because I really go for the rum. I have to say that I am *much* happier when I find out that a distillery does good things like this, but the rum influences my decision. If I find out that a distillery does good things then I might change my mind if I originally felt that the price was too high, but that's rare, too.

Though I certainly do care, it doesn't influence my purchase decision - the rum does.

[Hank Koestner]

I have to agree with Scottes. I had not really thought about it before.
How would we know how environmentally conscious each distiller is?
If I knew a distiller was just trashing the environment affecting the local people in a bad way, it might change my mind.

[Edward Hamilton]

The fact that most consumers have never considered the environmental impact of their products is one of the reasons it has taken so long for most distillers to do much about the environment cost of delivering their products. There is a lot a distiller can do to limit the environmental impact of their business and most of these steps aren't hard to implement.

Is the sugar cane being grown in an environmentally sustainable manner?

How the distillery treats the spent yeast is another question of environmental consciousness. Some distillers collect the spent yeast after distillation, treat it with anaerobic bacteria to convert the yeast to methane gas and then use that gas to power the distillery's energy needs, reducing the biological oxygen demand on the environment.

Though spent yeast utilization isn't generally visible to consumers, other things like bottles and packaging give consumers a better glimpse of environmental concerns.

In Europe there is increasing pressure for bottlers to use less glass and cardboard to deliver alcoholic beverage products. And in the US, some of the biggest retailers of consumer goods are beginning to pressure suppliers to use more environmentally friendly packaging.

Just as most people didn't think about the amount of energy they were using, or wasting, twenty years ago, the world is changing and environmental consciousness will become a major force in all markets in the coming years. In the meantime, the question becomes, "Are you a leader, or a follower?"

[Scottes]

This post got me to thinking a bit over the long, rum-filled weekend. I thought about things like Haleakala Distillers (Maui Rums) and their concerns for the land and people of Maui, and their donations to Maui non-profits. And I came across a blurb stating that the Maui sugar-cane industry used to burn the bagasse and produced electricity for themselves but also for the entire island of Maui. Even now, one of the Maui sugar producers produces 18 megawatts from it's bagasse, uses 12 and sends 6 megawatts back into Maui's grid.

I also saw a segment on the History channel talking about Brazil's uses of ethanol from sugar cane used in automobiles all over the country.

This is definitely good stuff, and I'm glad to hear about it.

[angelsword]

There is a lot a distiller can do to limit the environmental impact of their business and most of these steps aren't hard to implement.

I hadn't heard anything about methane from spent yeast until your post. Any further info you could send would be appreciated.

[Edward Hamilton]

I'll try to find something on the internet so I can post a link. The process equipment isn't cheap so there is a capital investment, but considering the rising cost of fuel, the payback time is getting more attractive all the time.

[Milicent]

After seeing the enviro-poll, I've been thinking about the issue lately. Just this morning, I heard an interview with Bill Haney who recently released "The Price of Sugar," which is a documentary re workers in the Dominican Republic's sugar fields. Apparently, the Haitian immigrants who do the majority of the work live in abysmal conditions that many have likened to slavery.

This report was especially interesting to me after having read up on Brugal rums in anticipation of trying their Extra Viejo. One statement I came across repeatedly was the use of cheap labor helps Brugal keep their prices low. Almost every mention of this was in favor since it helped the consumer in the end. It was unsettling at the time and even more so now that I now more about the situation.

I will do more research before making any final conclusions, but I will say I definitely won't be buying any more DR rums until I know more about where each distiller's sugar comes from and how the employees working the fields are treated.

One last note: I have no expectations that these workers would be paid on a scale comparable to the US markets. However, I do think it is important that they be treated with decency.

[angelsword]

Just this morning, I heard an interview with Bill Haney who recently released "The Price of Sugar," which is a documentary re workers in the Dominican Republic's sugar fields. Apparently, the Haitian immigrants who do the majority of the work live in abysmal conditions that many have likened to slavery.

Many makers of such documentaries are presenting an unbalanced point of view. I am not speaking of capitilist vs. worker. I am speaking about the lives of such people and how they balance their lives. Few outsiders are interested enough to have spent much time amongst poor field workers, slept in their homes, eaten their food, gone to the fields, celebrated, and mourned. Health care and diet certainly need attention. But it usually isn't slavery either.

Looking down from the top one might pity the conditions at the bottom of the abyss. Looking up from the bottom one might laugh at how all that money didn't make those above any happier.

[angelsword]

Only after I posted the above note did I notice that I was sipping on Vizcaya VXOP from the Dominican Republic. I'll continue buying this one.

[angelsword]

And I came across a blurb stating that the Maui sugar-cane industry used to burn the bagasse and produced electricity for themselves but also for the entire island of Maui. Even now, one of the Maui sugar producers produces 18 megawatts from it's bagasse, uses 12 and sends 6 megawatts back into Maui's grid.

The same kind of thing is being done in Texas by the Rio Grande Valley Sugar Growers. The sell the excess electricity back to the grid. We are looking at building a distillery next door to them.
http://news.tradingcharts.com/futures/0/4/99093040.html

My source of materials: http://www.rgvsugar.com/

[Scottes]

Apparently, the Haitian immigrants who do the majority of the work live in abysmal conditions that many have likened to slavery.
I recently heard that the average income in Haiti is about $217 a year. A quick google shows a range from "under $200" to "$280" annually.

[Edward Hamilton]

I recently had the opportunity to talk to three distillery representatives who explained what their companies were doing to process their effluent. One distillery in the Caribbean sprays their spent yeast on the fields as a fertilizer. The second uses a sophisticated system of spent yeast recovery and recycles the waste and the third is handing the waste to their municipality since it is really their problem to meet the environmental regulations and it would cost a lot of money to handle the waste differently based on the cost of energy on that island. Three very different approaches to a common problem. Of course there are a lot of other factors that have to be factored in to this discussion. The distiller that spreads the waste on the fields has an interest in the sugar cane crop and the others import molasses. One distillery is in an urban setting and has been operating for about a hundred years and the third was built in the last ten years with an eye to the future.

Besides dealing with the spent yeast the fermentation process also produces CO2 gas which can be recovered, filtered and used to carbonate other beverages. The wine industry in California is wrestling with CO2 emissions and some distillers are seeing this as an opportunity to be better wardens of the environment.

[Edward Hamilton]

Haleakala Distillers on Maui has been using bio-diesel in their delivery (http://haleakaladistillers.com/_wsn/page12.html) vehicle for years. At a time when a lot of people can't be bothered to investigate, much less implement, anything to reduce their impact on the environment, Haleakala should be applauded for their responsible actions.

[Mr Fjeld]

Very enlightening read, but I'm afraid I only went with the first alternative too. I'm consider myself extremely lucky because I'm relatively new to rum and have so much to look forward to. However, since there is so much to discover I feel I cannot let environmental considerations inform my choices too much. Instead, it makes sense to explore tastes, scents, types etc. without any regard about how it was made; the amount of energy used,waste etc.

But I welcome any information about environmentally friendly policies of the producers. I understand some of the warmer climate are more at risk than the northern hemisphere and if given the choice I think the consumers like ourselves would happily buy the slightly costlier product if it was produced in an environmentally friendly way - especially so because many of the products we buy are in a more expensive price segment so I suppose we are prepared to pay more than the average supermarket consumers. I don't think the supermarket chains see it that way as they are always trying their best to haggle the prices.

[emeraldsmoke]

Ed,

I think one choice was missing the selection for a complete & fair poll result.

0%

[primate77]

We're coming into an ever-increasing age of hearing about eco-friendly producers of... everything.

Yes, I think it is important. Very important, but I also consider a lot of it is pure marketing and marketing gain. Take the high-end eco-friendly grocery chains. They tout buying wind energy credits, sell organic, etc.

I read an interesting article a few months ago (I wish I could properly leave credit for it), where it made an excellent point. These stores really play up supporting local growers of organic products, they "showcase" this all over the store, but upon close inspection, the shelf space given to local producers is a tiny tiny fraction. Why? It's probably cheaper to bring organic apples up from Chile (or whatever the product is). The problem however, it how much fuel in consumed, and pollution created in the transport of those Chilean apples???

I find a lot of organic products to be excessively expensive and I believe that they are playing on the heartstrings of people who want to "go green" and also fears about hormones added to milk (a lot of which is not even true), and are willing to do it at even a much higher cost.

Do I think the rum industry should be "green"? I think all manufacturers that create any waste products or consume energy (which is, gee, well, about all of them), need to do what they can to be more eco-friendly.

However, I'm not buying any rum/rhum based on how eco-friendly the producer is. (I'm bearing in mind that those who market their products as being "organic" are often going to great lengths of exagerating the truth). Now, if someone sold me a really good story on how they produce eco-friendly, and make a rum I really liked at a reasonable price, you can bet I'd buy it.

Interesting story though -for those of you who like vodka - check out Vermont Gold Vodka. These guys are EXTREME!!!

[Rumpelteazer]

I concur that there is a lot of "green-wash" in the marketplace, and that you have to be very careful.

One surprising example from my industry (Architecture) is the U.S. Green Building Council, developers of the LEED ratings systems for buildings. Sounds good, right? Until you find out one of their major corporate funders is the Vinyl Institute. :eek:

[primate77]

I love it when you see things like Celebrities who advocate a day of going without your car for the entire day, and what kind of environmental impact that would make if everyone just did not drive their car on that one day.

(And then the very next day, John Travolta gets aboard and pilots one of his five private jets)!:D

Unfortunately, "organic" has become a mega-marketing monster that has filtered it's way down to the ranks of alcohol spirits.

Some of it's viable, some of it I'm sure is subtleties and "partial truth" and a lot of story-stretching to get you on board.

I suppose if I went to the actual distillery, talked to the people there, learned as much about the product as I could, and the product actually tasted good - yeah, I'd probably become a very loyal buyer/consumer.

I find myself repeatedly buying the same brand of chocolate because I visited the factory and liked what I saw (and tasted), I like a specific micro brewed beer because I went to the factory and liked what I saw (and tasted).

I'm sure it'd be no different for me with a good rum. Now, just gotta find a way to get to the Caribbean! I'm envious of you who are already there, or live in Florida and it's like driving across the border into Wisconsin for me (but much more enjoyable)!

[The Rum Ambassador]

I had to pick 10%, because I really go for the rum. I have to say that I am *much* happier when I find out that a distillery does good things like this, but the rum influences my decision. If I find out that a distillery does good things then I might change my mind if I originally felt that the price was too high, but that's rare, too.

Though I certainly do care, it doesn't influence my purchase decision - the rum does.

0 %
Hey we're all gonna die anyway, so enjoy the rum.....Scottes right. It's all about the rum. But if the Distillery is making a conscious decision for a greener way to produce rum, then I'm all for it...But if they're not and the rums GOOD......, Well wild horses pulling a plough, to save on fossil fuel being omitted into the ozone layer, couldn't stop me from sipping and savouring the rum. So as long as most of the rum companies keep re using bourbon, whisky and cognac barrel, (Saving Trees...Take note Bourbons), Keep on collecting CO2 from their fermentation tanks, (Slow down global warming) and keep using their waste as fertiliser, then I'm happy.
Cheers

[Edward Hamilton]

0 %
Hey we're all gonna die anyway, so enjoy the rum.....Scottes right. It's all about the rum. But if the Distillery is making a conscious decision for a greener way to produce rum, then I'm all for it...But if they're not and the rums GOOD......, Well wild horses pulling a plough, to save on fossil fuel being omitted into the ozone layer, couldn't stop me from sipping and savouring the rum. So as long as most of the rum companies keep re using bourbon, whisky and cognac barrel, (Saving Trees...Take note Bourbons), Keep on collecting CO2 from their fermentation tanks, (Slow down global warming) and keep using their waste as fertiliser, then I'm happy.
Cheers

Only a few rum distilleries actually collect and recycle the CO2 generated during fermentation. Using waste as fertilizer isn't all bad but there are much better ways to use the waste such as generating methane and using that to make steam for distillation, which compared to burning fossil fuels significantly reduces greenhouse gases.

Some spirits companies are looking at how their big glass bottles, which are never reused and only sometimes recycled, can be made more efficient for reducing the shipping and packaging weight.

The wine industry is beginning to discourage the use of the heaviest bottles which cost more to produce, ship and recycle.

[carlosalvarado10]

i never thought about this aspect. i do care about what is going around me. i will start keeping my eye on this. Thanks

[EssentialSpirits]

One of the main issues with "going green" is its cost prohibitiveness.

That being said, it is my 2nd most priority when we design our new distillery ( yes this could be happening in the very near future) to ensure that we are doing everything within our means to minimize our footprint on the earth.

From process water reclamation, to CO2 capture on the fermentation, to capturing and finding some purpose for the spent wash.

Being in California, we are at least lucky that our state government offers some help and coaching when considering major projects.

anyone taken a look a the Sierra Nevada Beer website? (http://www.sierranevada.com) that place is AMAZING.

If we could ever get a distillery with HALF that eco-consciousness, i could die happy.

[Mad_L]

I am always environmentally curious...but every time I try t' peek she WACKS me upside me noggin!
HMMR

[gatomalo]

After seeing the enviro-poll, I've been thinking about the issue lately. Just this morning, I heard an interview with Bill Haney who recently released "The Price of Sugar," which is a documentary re workers in the Dominican Republic's sugar fields. Apparently, the Haitian immigrants who do the majority of the work live in abysmal conditions that many have likened to slavery.

This report was especially interesting to me after having read up on Brugal rums in anticipation of trying their Extra Viejo. One statement I came across repeatedly was the use of cheap labor helps Brugal keep their prices low. Almost every mention of this was in favor since it helped the consumer in the end. It was unsettling at the time and even more so now that I now more about the situation.

I will do more research before making any final conclusions, but I will say I definitely won't be buying any more DR rums until I know more about where each distiller's sugar comes from and how the employees working the fields are treated.

I recently heard that the average income in Haiti is about $217 a year. A quick google shows a range from "under $200" to "$280" annually.

My father visited the Dominican Republic a couple of years ago and said that not only were the immigrant Haitian sugar cane workers earning very little, but many of them were there illegally and subsequently had no legal rights, being treated very much as second-class "citizens".

The reasons why Haitians try their luck in the DR are clear. Haiti is a mess. It's one of the poorest and most corrupt countries in the world, relying heavily on foreign aid and suffering from frequent natural disasters. It has long suffered at the hands of dictators, and has been brought to its knees by widespread desertification which has seen all but 2% of its forests destroyed. If you look at satellite images of Hispaniola you will see the stark contrast between the land on either side of the Haiti/DR border. Although this situation is said to be slowly improving, one side of the border is predominantly green, the other is totally brown.

http://scienceblogs.com/tfk/images/200608261953.jpg

Haiti is unable to feed its people or help itself. Two-thirds of the population do not have formal jobs and inflation is at 9%. Furthermore, 80% of its people live below the poverty line. The literacy rate is only 52.9% and foreign investment is practically non-existent. The authorities are under-funded and the government is ill-equipped. A recent school-collapse which killed dozens of children required calling in overseas assistance because the local authorities could not cope on their own.

A recent article published in the National Geographic magazine looked at the effect which deforestation has had on Haiti. A photograph of a dirt poor Haitian woman selling cakes made from clay perfectly illustrates the desperate plight of the Haitian people.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/09/soil/bourne-text

In view of all this, it is easy to see why many Haitians try their luck in the DR. Even so-called "slave-like" conditions must be preferable to starvation.

So, what has this got to do with rum? Many of you will know and perhaps even regularly drink Rhum Barbancourt, which is from Haiti. I've often wondered how the distiller manages to produce such fine rums in a country which appears to be in crisis. The Barbancourt 15 year old Reserve du Domaine costs at least Ј32 here in the UK. That works out to be around $50 US at the current exchange rate, or approximately one fifth of the average annual salary in Haiti. How should I feel about this as I open a bottle? I’m not sure.

[TheRumelier]

I would think the more Barbancourt you drink the more you are helping the econmy in Haiti. Barbancourt are one of the biggest employers in the country if not the biggest. We buy their rhum by the 20' container load, surely the more I buy the more people have to be employed to produce the rhum. Most of my staff are Haitian and are obviously here for econmic reasons. Haiti is certainly the poorest country in the Western hemisphere and I don't think it's even close.

[Bill]

Considering that most of us are from countries that use a disproportionate amount of goods, services and energy, drive SUV's and create at least 30% of world pollution, we are hardly in a position to hold forth.

We are all hypocrites.

After we solve our own issues, we may then be in a position to cast stones.

[Rum Runner]

Considering that most of us are from countries that use a disproportionate amount of goods, services and energy, drive SUV's and create at least 30% of world pollution, we are hardly in a position to hold forth.

We are all hypocrites.

After we solve our own issues, we may then be in a position to cast stones.

Depending upon one's position, this thread had evolved or devolved into Opinions on Social Awareness.

I am not against this discussion. It simply may need it's own thread.

I see no "casting of stones" here.

Care be to those who live in glass houses.

[gatomalo]

I would think the more Barbancourt you drink the more you are helping the econmy in Haiti. Barbancourt are one of the biggest employers in the country if not the biggest. We buy their rhum by the 20' container load, surely the more I buy the more people have to be employed to produce the rhum. Most of my staff are Haitian and are obviously here for econmic reasons. Haiti is certainly the poorest country in the Western hemisphere and I don't think it's even close.

Rumelier, I think you're probably right! The success of Barbancourt rums can only be a good thing for the Haitian economy. It would be nice if more of the money spent on the rums here in the UK actually went to the people who produce it, and particularly to those lower down in the pyramid who earn very modest wages, rather than to the UK government through excessive taxation.

[Bill]

I see no "casting of stones" here. Care be to those who live in glass houses.

What? Huh? If you're going to mix your metaphors, I'd suggest a nice glass co-mingling bowl and a more sturdy wooden mixed-up spoon, lol...

"The folly of mistaking a paradox for a discovery, a metaphor for a proof, a torrent of verbiage for a spring of capital truths, and oneself for an oracle, is inborn in us."
Paul Valery (1871 - 1945), 1895

Happy holidays to all... and buy Barbancourt!

[Arctic Wolf]

What an interesting thread.

I think a BIG problem for persons trying to be green is the difficulty in obtaining unbiased information. Not just information on what green practices certain distilleries and bottling companies employ, but also information on whether these policies and practices are actually 'green'.

I have a fiend who is concerned about the 'carbon footprint' he is leaving so he decided to buy everything that was produced locally. So he drives to a produce store that claims to sell only locally grown produce. Trouble is they don't have everything he needs. So he drives to another of these specialty stores and yet another.

We were arguing about this the other day because I think his 'footprint' is larger than ever. First off it is probably more efficient to ship mass amounts of produce in large container trucks than it is to ship small amounts from local specialty growers. I suspect a truckload of lettuce from California leaves a smaller footprint per pound of lettuce than a carload of lettuce from a local farm 30 miles from the city. And then there's the driving my friend is doing.

But its even more complicated than that. If he doesn't even try to be more conscious then the local grown producer doesn't have a chance to become more efficient.

Its kind of like the electric car debate. Those batteries that power the cars have a lot of exotic chemicals and elements in them, and they are only warranteed for a short period of the cars life. Maybe we are worse of, especially in large portions of North America where the electricity is produced from coal. But maybe we need to start the change to make it more efficient.

There has been some discussion of what farm workers in Haiti are paid. I think that if everyone agrees to forfeit Haitian Rum as a result the workers will be even less well off. But then again maybe not as it may be one lever that causes positive change in the long run.

If I knew a certain Rum company engaged in a particular despicable practice, I would definitely not buy their Rum. I would even avoid the other spirits from companies that are linked to them. The trouble is in the knowing.

In spite of all this I try to be as Green and socially conscious as possible. I will not buy burgers at a certain Fast food chain because I know for a fact that they have a policy in the local store of laying off kids after they are 16 years old so that they can hire 14 yr old replacements and avoid paying them minimum wage.

But I guess I think that Government has a huge responsibility here. Like in Scotland where they are working with the distilleries to implement new regulations to improve the efficiencies. This is a positive thing.


(Sorry about the rambliness of this post, but its a hard topic to repond to fairly without a bit of ramble.):confused: