Renegade 12 yr 1995 Uitvlught (Guyana)

[distilledspiritualist]

Hi all!

Last night, I tried a very interesting rum- Renegade 12 yr 1995 Uitvlught. To my senses, it had a nice nose of green, unripe banana, dark brown sugar, and a rather dry palate with more unripe banana/plantain, star anise, licorice and green cardamom. Tres yummy! party2.gif

Anyway, getting to my question, if I understand it correctly, Renegade is a subsidiary of Bruichladdich, no? And why do some rum bottlings go under their Murray McDavid label, while others go under the Renegade label? I hope this question makes sense, since I'm a little confused as to why Bruichladdich does their independent bottlings under two labels. Help!

Happy New Years, and thanks,

Nancy (aka "distilledspiritualist")

[rumdog007]

I believe that the Murray McDavid rums were their first attempt to get their (re-finished) rums into the spirit world. What's still on the selves of the MMcD was bottled a while back. The Renegade bottlings are the recent (starting about 2 years ago) effort to establish a brand that separates them from their single malts.

[Edward Hamilton]

There's a little magic in every bottle of spirits so I don't ever expect to know all the details of something like Renegade but I believe rumdog007 is right, Renegade is owned by Murray McDavid and is bottling unique rums for the exceptional consumer. The rums are aged in the UK and are unique among the rums I've seen in the market to date. The original Murray McDavid rums didn't do as well as hoped so the Renegade brand was launched a couple of years ago. They are available on a limited basis in the US and the EU.

[distilledspiritualist]

Ed and Rumdog, thanks for answering my question!

I've tried about three of the Murray McDavid expressions and bought the Hampden distillery bottling as well. With all due respect to the Murray McDavid selection, which is certainly interesting with all the exotic cask finishings, I find the Renegade brand to be more....well, "rum-like," I suppose- at least to my palate. Seems I heard that K & L Wine & Spirits here in San Francisco carries Renegade, so I'll be venturing out to explore their selection!

Warm thanks, fellas, and hope you have a Happy New Year!
-distilledspiritualist

[Arctic Wolf]

I believe that originally, (and maybe still) the Ownership of Murray McDavid, was slightly different than the Ownership of the Bruichladdich Group. Murray McDavid was an independent Bottler much like Signatory, Gordon & Macphail et cetera. A very close relationship between McDavid and Briuchladdich was established right from the beginning with Murray McDavid essentially sharing (merging) technology and facilities with Bruichladdich. I do not know whether Murray McDavid, functions as an independant bottler anymore or whether its operations have been fully merged into Bruichladdich. I think Renegade Rum was originally an partnership between Bruichladdich and McDavid, but if the two companies are fully merged then that partnership is rather mute.

[distilledspiritualist]

Artic Wolf, thank you kindly for a bit more of the background behind the Murray McDavid/Bruichladdich/Renegade Rum connection. Seems that sometimes it is difficult to parse out those kind of complex business relationships, since they can be rather nebulous. I had been very curious about that connection for a while, so thanks for more insight.

FYI, I had a look at your blog and really enjoyed both your whiskey & rum tasting notes!

Warm regards,
-The Distilled Spiritualist

[Arctic Wolf]

Why, thank you very much Nancy, I appreciate the kind comments. I was going to direct you to my blog for my review of the UITLUGHT but I imagine you already found it.

The original bottlings of Murray McDavid and Bruichladdich were some of my very favourite, and I am staring at my last bottle of Murray McDavid Mission Series Highland Park 1979 (23 yr) wondering whether to open it a midnight tonight. Probably not as I cracked my 28 year old Signatory Mosstowie last night, and I try very hard to restrain myself. Besides I have a lot of company tonight and sharing a $200.00 bottle of Scotch with a bunch of rummies seems to me to be a waste. I'll let them sample the Santa Teresa 1796 which they and my wallet will enjoy more.

The other bottle that calls to me from my shelf is My Murray McDavid Nicaragua 10 year old Rum. A couple times over the holidays I almost opened it. I will open it at some point this year and my tasting notes will go on my blog.

[distilledspiritualist]

Hi Arctic Wolf,

My goodness, I know how you feel: for the whiskey connoisseur side of me, I'm not sure I would share something like an MMc. Mission Series Highland Park 1979 with anyone who was not truly into whiskey! (lol) Unfortunately, some of those whiskies are just too expensive and too precious to be shared unless you are drinking with others who know what they're drinking (not to sound snobbish about it- unless one has unlimited financial resources, such delights are just not everyday occurrances). I think I would be opening the Santa Teresa 1796 for the group instead, too!

And speaking of Murray McDavid, I've really enjoyed the 13 yr Jamaican Rum Hampden distillery bottling, which I find has very nice soprano notes of various tropical fruits, although it really seems to have lots of fusel oils coming through on the finish. Besides that, the only other Murray McDavid rum bottlings I've had are the MM 13 Port Morant distillery Guigal Hermitage Cask and the MM 13 yr Port Morant distillery Chateau d'Yquem Cask. The later one I found had lots of phenols, tar and briny notes, which ordinarily I love in an Islay whiskey, but not so much for rum. Nevertheless, I've enjoyed what I've had, and would love recommendations on what to try next.

Anyway, hope I'm not too long winded here, but you know how it is talking about this stuff....one just gets a little carried away sometimes! I'll definitely be having a much closer look at your blog and tasting notes, as it looks like that's going to be lots of fun to go through them.

Happy New Year, enjoy that Santa Teresa 1796 and please have one for me, and I'm going to break out a bottle of Batiste rhum blanc for my guests tonight for the masses!
cheers.gif
-Nancy

[Edward Hamilton]

I'll be starting my night with a ti punch as well, as soon as I finish off this afternoon office warmer. The temperatures dropping fast today in the windy city.

[distilledspiritualist]

Ed, please enjoy a ti punch for me, too!

I look forward to seeing you the next time you get back out to SF. Actually, we met once at a meeting with Ansley Coale from Craft Distillers a couple years ago, so I look forward to "re" meeting you.
Happy New Year,

-Nancy

[Arctic Wolf]

Hi Nancy,

My favourite of the Renegade Series is easily the Panama Don Jose 1997. A port finish. I've tried the Jamaica, and found it to be a confusing concoction with the white wine "enhancement" dominating rather than complimenting the rum.

The Panama on the other hand is beautifully balanced with all these rich exotic flavours arriving with the Port but first and foremost the Panama is a rum. It scores as one of the top five rums I tried this year.cheers.gif

[distilledspiritualist]

Hi Arctic Wolf,

Wow, many thanks. I will be keeping a sharp eye out for the Renegade Don Jose 1997. Although I really enjoy rums or whiskies that have finished in a previous use port, madeira, pedro ximenez, or similar sort of casks, I've found that the essence of a spirit sometimes gets lost if left for too long. I'm very encouraged by the fact that you say "first and foremost the Panama is a rum." Can't wait to seek and try that one out.

The thing I've found with spirits that have finished in port or madeira refills, is that they tend to pick up some of those nutty, Christmas cake, oxidized "rancio" kind of notes, which I love in a good Armagnac or Cognac. However, I agree, these kinds of notes should never predominate the essence of the spirit, but should compliment it. Anyway, I digress....

Happy new year, and may this year be filled with many an exciting new rum (or whiskey, for that matter),

-Nancy

[Edward Hamilton]

I would agree that the Renegade Don Jose rum is the most approachable of the current offerings simply because it tastes more like what we expect rum to taste like. Like so many single malts, they weren't really distilled and aged to be drunk neat, but rather to be blended, though the people in the distillery where they are made will disagree.

Rums, on the other hand, are generally blended from stocks of differing ages and congener contents from the same distillery and the people who make them have no impetus to acquire a taste for those rums that are used in small quantities to give the blend the heaviest or lightest notes.

I for one don't want to drink the highest ester rums neat, but when properly aged and skillfully blended can add a welcome dimension to a blended product.

[distilledspiritualist]

Thank you Ed, that is very illuminating.

Your comment got my cogs turning this morning, and I'm curious if oxidation of the various fatty acids and esters in the barrels over time is even something that rum blenders try to accomplish? (Sort of the way a small, artisan Armagnac distiller/blender might try to achieve the development of rancio in his or her individual casks) I'm guessing for the most part no, based on what you said about the rums being blended with differing stocks of congener and age contents.

I would love to learn a lot more about the art of blending and the maturation of rums. I find that whole topic incredibly fascinating, and would be most appreciative if you could point me to some good reading and resources on the topic.

Many thanks, and Happy New Year!
-Nancy

[Edward Hamilton]

I'm learning myself but certainly oxidation is part of the goal in the aging process. There are several approaches to the final product, one being make your rum, then age it and manipulate the flavor by selecting various barrels and blending them. The other approach which is more widespread, in my experience, is to make several different rums, i.e. distillation proofs, congener levels and congener profiles, aging these rums and then blending them together to make the final product.

As an example, Gary Nelthropp uses the first approach at Cruzan and talks a bit about it in the interview (http://www.ministryofrum.com/producerdetails.php?t=145) he did a couple of months ago. This is also the approach taken at Flor de Caсa and Zacapa. Others like Appleton and El Dorado use the second approach which gives more flexibility in the final blend. The cost of production of these two approaches depends on a very different matrix of underlying costs. In the second approach the costs may include producing rum with different yeasts in addition to the costs of inventory control for several different products. In another interview Troy Roberts (http://www.ministryofrum.com/producerdetails.php?t=2658) at Drum Circle Rum talks about using different yeasts to make the rums which will go into his blend of white and gold rum.

In the French islands, distillers making rhum agricole only have one product stream and then blend their aged rhums according to flavor and availability of aged stocks. As the price of barrels continues to go higher, more and more French distillers are using used or reconditioned cognac barrels to age their rhum.

Thanks for making me think about this, I'll try to confirm the production of more distilleries in these terms. There is always something to learn.

[Arctic Wolf]

Hi Arctic Wolf,

The thing I've found with spirits that have finished in port or madeira refills, is that they tend to pick up some of those nutty, Christmas cake, oxidized "rancio" kind of notes, which I love in a good Armagnac or Cognac. However, I agree, these kinds of notes should never predominate the essence of the spirit, but should compliment it. Anyway, I digress....

-Nancy

I agree with that observation. In the world of rum there has not been the level of experimentation, with respect to finishing casks as there has been in the whisky world. But all to often it it seems that the experimenters are not taking the time to sample their products regularly, to catch the spirit at its optimum enhancement level. I think for the most part Renegade has been guilty of this. (Or perhaps it may be that they have purposely been trying to 'shock' the palate of the rum drinker in to a new paradigm.)

I have experimented for about a year and a half with various enhancements for rum, whisky, and tequila in my one litre oak barrels. I have found that constant attention to the taste profile is imperative if I am to be happy with the result. Sometimes missing the peak of flavour enhancement by as little as a week can seriously damage the final spirit. So when I see statements like "enhanced for six months" or "enhanced for one year" I am very suspicious. It seems to me that the company is more concerned with a 'specified' amount of time in the refinishing barrel rather than the 'right' amount of time.

I would rather have the spirit released from the barrel at day 285 if that is when the flavour is peaking, than because of some mindless policy having the spirit deteriorate for 80 days because they want the bottle to say enhanced for a year.

With some white wine enhancements I think Renegade could have taken the spirit out very quickly and achieved a better enhancement product.

Another observation I have made is that it is no sin to to go back into an aged oak barrel after enhancement. I made a Scotch enhanced in Port Wine. After six weeks the Port flavour had really heightened but the two flavours did not seem to co exist well. So I threw the spirit into an old worn out barrel. Tasting every couple days I found the Port began to marry very well into the Scotch in this old barrel. I believe further enhancement in the Port Barrel would have been disastrous, But the Old Oak barrel was just the thing for final finishing.

In a long winded way I guess I am saying that the trend to enhance spirits in other barrels is still very recent, and I think it will take a long time for all the nuances of this trend to be discovered and exploited in the best way.

[rumdog007]

One of the great things about life is hearing about the diversity of taste and resulting reception/perception. Thanks for all of the thoughts.

I find the Murray McDavid rums, across the board, pretty well crafted. The Jamaican offering from either the MMcD or the Renegade is one of my favorites. I praise it for its bold spirit. Sure, it may be the Carrot Top of the line but it never fails to draw a second dram at my house.drooling2.gif

[distilledspiritualist]

Ed and Arctic Wolf,

Many thanks. Both of you gave such detailed and informative answers, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading those posts. I listened to the Troy Roberts interview re the impact of yeast on the final product, and how using different yeast strains in fermentations of different batches can really enhance or add some missing pieces during the blending process. Can't wait to go back and hear the other interview from the gentleman from Cruzan.

Arctic Wolf, I can't even begin to tell you just how interested I am in hearing more about your enhancement experiments using a one litre cask. Have you ever experimented with new oak, and if so, what levels of toasting have you experimented with? Medium plus? Char?

You also mention something that I think is so right-on-target: "Sometimes missing the peak of flavour enhancement by as little as a week can seriously damage the final spirit," and further that companies are often more worried about the "specified" amount of time as opposed to the "right" amount of time as regards cask finishing. Boy, that is so well-said.

I'm also very curious about what you said concerning going back to an aged oak barrel after enhancement. I wonder if this somehow "mellows" out or tempers the components and characteristics the Scotch picked up from the Port pipe? I'd love to be kept abreast of your enhancement/finishing experiments. This is something I've been interested in for some time, but I don't have a place where I can conduct these sort of experiments.

Not to keep beating a dead horse on this whole topic, but have you read or heard of a text called The 4th International Barrel Symposium, 1999 edition? I've only had a cursory look at it myself and unfortunately I don't own a copy, but it looks like it is chocked full of in-depth information regarding the science and art of barrel maturation. At any rate, it is amazing to me that the whole science and art of maturation is still somewhat a mystery in many regards.

On that note, that discussion made me very thirsty, so I'm off to have a some Appleton 12 before dinner....

-Nancy

[Arctic Wolf]

One of the great things about this Forum is how persons like Rumdog can disagree so completely with me and yet do so in such a respect manner.

We have discussed this one before Wally and I realize that while I find the flavours of the Jamaica confusing and disharmonious, you find it utterly delightful. Kind of reminds me of my take on my kids favourite music. Of course we are both right.

You are a true gentleman Wally and my respect for you and your opinions just keeps on growing.

you rock.gif

[distilledspiritualist]

Before I go for the evening, I agree with you, Rumdog. I love my bottle Jamaican offering of MMcD. Its so fragrant and estery, sometimes I swear after I've poured a bit of it that the nose of it fills an entire room, it is so big!