Mixing with "Better" Rums

[Milicent]

Quick comments and queries for the rum aficionados: After reading many (if not all) of the posts here, numerous articles, and having numerous personal conversations, the overwhelming consensus re mixing with better rums seems to be that it is a waste of good rum.

While it is undeniable that some of the nuances and subtleties are lost in the mix, I don't understand the bias against mixing with better rums. Personally, I enjoy several rums neat or on the rocks. I also enjoy most rums in a 1 to 1 or 1 to 2 ratio Cuba Libre. The better rums always seem to make better drinks. I can still taste the rums enough to appreciate subtleties and discern better rums from others. That is my personal experience.

At times, it seems there is a sort of pretentiousness that exists in this regard. Here is my question: With all things considered, is it really a waste to use better rums in mixed drinks?

I know it all boils down to personal preference, but I would like to hear comments and opinions re the reasons why someone wouldn't want to use their favorite rums in mixed drinks when it seems undeniable that they would make better drinks.

I guess that's part of my confusion as well. If a person likes their rum neat or on the rocks at all times, I completely understand why they wouldn't want to see them mixed. At the same time, I don't understand the bias against doing so. It just seems to be pretentious snobbery. That's why I'm seeking input and other perspectives. I am fully aware my perceptions are limited and many of you have more experience, knowledge, and wisdom on this subject. Can you help me out?

[Edward Hamilton]

Before I get to the discussion of mixing better rums, I'd like to congratulate you on making the 1000th post on this forum and thank you for your contribution.

I fall into the category of those who don't regularly mix better rums, but the question eally should be, " With what are you mixing your good rum?"
Call me a snob, but I never mix any rum with cola products, nor do I drink cola products by themselves. I really don't like high fructose corn syrup, no matter how it's served.

And for years I refused to add more than a little fresh Caribbean rain water to my rum. Then I began mixing better rums with better ingredients. Sometimes a rum manhattan (http://caribbean-spirits.com/recipes.htm#rhumman) hits the spot, and I use La Favorite Rhum Agricole Vieux or one of the better molasses based rums like Mount Gay Extra Old. Is it a waste of rum? No, not if you use good vermouth and fresh bitters. Not some bitters from a half empty bottle that has been sitting around for 2 years.

If you're mixing Diet Cola with your rum, I'd say you'd probably save some money by drinking cheaper rum, but there are no rules and no one should cut you off from the bar if you enjoy your rum that way. I would suggest that there are a lot of rum recipes that mix good ingredients with good rum and it does taste better with better rum.

I'll add a few recipes, but right now it's time for a cocktail. First things first.

[Scottes]

I definitely believe in using the better stuff in drinks, for all ingredients. If a decent bottle of "mixing" rum costs $15 and a very good bottle costs $25, and you're using 1.5oz per drink then each "very good" drink costs about $0.59 more than the "decent" drink.

59 pennies.

[angelsword]

I personally believe that quality of each ingredient adds to the overall result. A group of superb musicians can present a fantastic concert. Mediocre musicians usually just create cacophony.

[Matusalem]

As others have indicated I believe in using quality ingredients that I like. It might also be a "just me" thing, but I'll try things and if I don't like them - unless I feel a real strong need to keep something unliked on hand for others, I won't replenish the item and am subject to give it away if someone else is more interested or has a better use for it.

Because of that, I don't have much on hand that I don't enjoy. Therefore when I make a mixed drink it usually is from something I do enjoy or what I do consider "better".

However, on the otherside of your question, there is also the tug-of-war and balance to avoid over-kill. Zacapa 23 year old in an everyday simple Pina Colada - to me that might be doing too much. I believe Scottes pointed to what some find at the heart of the matter - $$. While you specifically stated "better rums" many people tend to automatically associate "better" with more expensive.

While better often does cost a bit more, that isn't the only rule to follow - IMHO. For me there are an abundance of mid-range as well as a few cheap priced rums that are perfect for what I believe we are talking about (by my own taste at least).

What I'm more concerned about is balance. Does the mix destroy the rum? Is the rum too rich and a stand-out in contrast to the rest of the formula? And finally, if it is a drink where the rum is supposed to be completely concealed - does it make sense to use a rum that (A) can't be disguised or concealed and (B) costs a pretty penny to boot?

As Ed asserted, I don't do cola. I'd also describe myself as an infrequent mixer, so maybe my thoughts on this are not the most relevant.

[Dood]

For me it's about the right match.

I agree that better rums make better mixed drinks...however I'm not likely to take a bottle of Appleton 21 and mix it with Coke Zero. I've made an effort at finding rums that are good for mixing and rums that are good for sipping and keep a goodly amount of both in stock. There IS some crossover, and for that I take the approach of: If it makes you happy, it ain't bad (except for the idea of Appleton 21 and Coke Zero...I think that you have to register with some Rum Offender list at the police department if you do that).

For me, if a rum is good in both, and not costly, then I feel no pangs of guilt mixing it. If, on the other hand, procuring the rum takes a great deal of effort either from the wallet or my person, I keep it strictly for sipping - for example I only drink Admiral Rodney neat or with an ice cube and MAYBE a splash of water, because I can't replenish my stock very easily (I have to actually go to St. Lucia to do so).

[Milicent]

The idea of quality of mixers is one I hadn't considered beyond not using mixes and always using fresh ingredients. Good points all around and I appreciate your insights.

The comments re using better rums that get lost in the mix also makes a great point. I've discovered several rums I love neat that don't work at all when mixed. Lastly, mixing anything with Coke Zero is straight out nasty.

[Matusalem]

The idea of quality of mixers is one I hadn't considered beyond not using mixes and always using fresh ingredients. Good points all around and I appreciate your insights.

The comments re using better rums that get lost in the mix also makes a great point. I've discovered several rums I love neat that don't work at all when mixed. Lastly, mixing anything with Coke Zero is straight out nasty.Milicent,

I hope none of us came off as condescending in response. I thought this was a great question (personally).

I'm curious, and just to get a better idea, what personally do you think are "better rums" you've mixed? Also what are some things you feel are beneath your taste mixed or you've felt "better rums" would have better served?

I ask the question just to get an idea - I'm wondering whether some of the things you'll select as falling short, might be items some of us already ruled out.

I also realize there can be quite a difference between what one does in private versus what one does or is seen doing in a crowded environment (private party, club etc.). Obviously I think the "bulk" mentality is more prevalent where large audiences gather. With that "mentality" & setting, prep. time and other attention to detail factors (fresh ingredients etc.) are not abundant or practical given rapid demand - which those and other nuances may defeat the logic in using upper tier product as well.

I guess what I am trying to get an idea of is do you find true enthusiasts you know using crap or less than "better" because they think mixed rum drinks should be shaved down to the lowest cost denominator? Or have you perhaps viewed the large audience environment and concluded that reflects outside that specific arena?

Thanks!

[Scottes]

When I had posted my reply above I had actually planned on saying much more, but got interrupted and cut the reply short. Now I've found that Matusalem and Dood have succinctly said what I was going to say.

What I'm more concerned about is balance.

For me it's about the right match.

The original question - and the unspoken part of my answer - put me on a quest this weekend, a quest to make an excellent Rum Sidecar, aka an XYZ. Cognac is my second-favorite spirit, and a Sidecar is my favorite non-Tiki cocktail. I've found that a Sidecar is a cocktail that is usually good, sometimes excellent, and occasionally phenomenal - and it all depends on the overall balance and the complexity of the base spirit. IMHO.

So I played with several proportions and rums. The Clиment VSOP version was bland, the St James Ambre was a little unbalanced, the Ron Zacapa 23 was very good but a bit dull, and the Flor De Cana 21 version was overwhelmed by the rum.

In many ways this initial experiment was a flop, since none of them were worthwhile, but it did contain some valuable lessons. The primary lesson I learned was that the correct rum is important, regardless of its price or quality or whether it's a "better" rum or not.

Now I just have to find the correct rum for this cocktail.

[Hank Koestner]

There are many classic recipes that call for specific rums; evidence of the experimentation that goes into creating a good cocktail. It still comes down to a matter of taste. I have a few rums that I will not mix, these were born of the still to be consumed neat or with a touch of water. I am not a big fan of the fruit juice type rum cocktail, but will try them and enjoy them from time to time. I prefer my rum neat or with a little ice, and I lean towards basics like rum and ginger and rum and tonic. Or, perhaps, a drink like a good Rum Manhatten. I think the difference might be is that some rums do not stand as well on thier own, and might be better suitable for mixing. It still comes down to personal taste, and price is always a factor. I too, I must admit, will not drink cola or put sprite in my Mojito. I always try the recommended recipe first, then I may substitute another rum to see the difference. I do believe that ingredients are very important, as Ed mentioned, a bad vermouth could change the taste of a great rum. This was a great topic for discussion!!!
So, pour and mix what you like, and enjoy!! :D

[Edward Hamilton]

In many ways this initial experiment was a flop, since none of them were worthwhile, but it did contain some valuable lessons. The primary lesson I learned was that the correct rum is important, regardless of its price or quality or whether it's a "better" rum or not.

Now I just have to find the correct rum for this cocktail.

Sometimes the success of an experiment is often learning what doesn't work because if it worked the first time the answer would appear to be intuitive and not worthy of experimentation.

Last week a bartender offered me a rum cocktail of which he was justly proud, but by substituting a rum with more flavor, it was transformed from a good rum cocktail to a great example of a rum cocktail. The sweetness of the fruit juice was balanced by the heavier flavor of the rum.

It's like finding your keys in the last place you looked for them. Have you ever continued to look for your keys after you looked in the last place you found them?

[Milicent]

Thanks again to everyone who has responded to my query. I have appreciated everyone's input and insights and haven't found any condescension.

I wanted to better define my terms re "better rums" and mention specific examples.Here are some of the rums I consider to be better but do not work well when mixing: Ron Zacapa 23, Flor de Cana 18, Mount Gay XO, and Zaya 12. The qualities that I like most about each of these rums gets lost when mixed. Some rums I enjoy neat but also mixed include Ron Pampero, Pyrat XO, and Appleton 12. These all have strong enough flavors that don't get lost and add to the mix. However, I have heard/read strong comments re mixing each of these last three I mentioned.

The situations in which I have encountered the most condescension/pretension have been conversations about spirits and websites. The general sentiment I have most often encountered is that you would have to be an ignorant philistine to waste good alcohol in any sort of a mixed drink. It also seems to be taken for granted that there is no difference between Bacardi Superior and a better rum in a mixed drink.

These are my experiences and reasons for posting my question. The reason I joined this forum and posted my question here is that I don't sense the same condescension. I also appreciate getting to hear about great rums and drinks to try.

Thanks again. Keep your comments coming. I appreciate them.

[Scottes]

I visit a lot of cocktail blogs and a couple forums, and I've almost never seen this condescension. Mostly folks seem to talk about using the correct spirit, which isn't always expensive. And you also kinda prove that since the rums you like to drink with are decently priced. They are what I consider to be "good mixing rums" and not really sipping rums. Now, those are all very sippable, but I have many that are much more sippable so those get relegated to good drinks where the flavor is required.



Also, I forgot about this post in the past: Cocktail Math - http://www.spiritsreview.com/recipes-cocktail-math.htm

[Milicent]

Scottes,

What are some of the sipping rums you'd recommend?

[Scottes]

Here's the rums I've reviewed, ranked by my preference.

http://scottesrum.com/rum-ranking/

The ones under "Highly Recommended" are my sipping rums - though I do sometimes sip some of the "Recommended" ones, too.

[Matusalem]

Milicent,

I enjoy other spirits outside of rum and I do know the sentiment you speak of. It does exist but as of recent there has been somewhat of a push towards more "political correctness" when dealing with the issue.

There does come a point where I do see the points of perhaps being critical of people's choice compared to what I would do if in the same situation. That criticism does not come from the innocent novice or the individual that simply and truly enjoys their spirit that way... but rather when the individual (novice or not) is trying to impress while clearly having no appreciation for what ever crutch is being used to prop up their attempt to impress.

For example I was at a local establishment that allows cigar smoke. Guy walks in with client. Asks what's the most expensive single malt you have - Macallan? The bar person says no that would be this - which was a private bottled 40+ year old. The guy says give us two - and then yells "ON THE ROCKS".

I could have sworn I heard the wood counter and bar foundation creek in a groan or moan, lol. After about 25 seconds of thought the bar person finally agreed but clearly was conflicted. Less than 5 minutes later the guy and client shuffle out of the place. The client's glass is pretty much empty except for the melting ice. Mr. Big Stuff's glass is 85% full and color of it's contents is a couple of shades darker than water with a lemon squeeze in it.

Point being - it's my belief the person ordering was trying to impress someone else and had absolutely no appreciation for the single malt. His goal was to order the most expensive item available - not to enjoy the beverage he chose. Accent that with his mannerism, I'd be hard pressed to say I wasn't a bit amused and thought off all the times I've heard others say "what a terrible waste of good whisky". $90 + tip for 3.5 minutes of time and perhaps 2 table-spoons of enjoyment... for me that was pushing the envelope as far as how I approach my own beverage enjoyment.

You on the other hand, should enjoy your rum however you see fit and like it best. Especially since none of us are offering to pay for it, I don't see us or anyone else in a position to be critical of your choice to enjoy it. Now if you want $150 bottles of one-off rums to pour over your breakfast cereal etc., and are motivated to do so simply because they are absurd in price I might silently wonder about your mental health.
:)

[Milicent]

Matusalem,

No rum over my Wheaties? And I thought rum was the breakfast of champions. Nice story and it illustrates your point well. I understand the sentiment toward the individual(s) in that situation. Essentially, it is a form of the very pretentiousness I find most annoying.

A situation I have found similarly amusing and a bit frustrating was when out and forced to overhear a person ordering Bacardi Reserve "straight," decidedly unlike "those plebs at that table mixing it with Coke, for God's sake." I'm not bashing Bacardi Reserve, but the guy's attitude and intention was clearly all about elevating himself over the foolish rum and Coke imbibers. Just plain silly.

Once again, thanks for presenting the even-handed and well-informed comments I find representative of this forum.

[Matusalem]

...and finally we are getting somewhere. :D

I asked you what rums you might be referring to or using as a gauge. I own one bottle of Barcardi - (Select), bought in 2001 and roughly 50% full to date. I did own a bottle of the 8 year old (bought around 2003/2004) tasted it once and gave it away to a friend who dropped by on his way to a party which the host requested he pick up a bottle of Bacardi - just my luck.
:eek:

In general Bacardi is mixing caliber by my personal taste. I think it has a lot to do with availability and burnout. Not quite the sort you might be thinking though (availability). Bacardi was often available in my grandparents liquor cabinet, long before I was an authorized and certified scientist. Not like I was gonna let a little technicality like age stop my data research and collection - though, was I?

Again my "on-hand" is what I consider "better" or at least in some way 'interesting'. Bacardi I know is beloved to many - not myself - no offense to those of you that do fancy it.

Rum on your Wheaties is fine by me. I won't lie, I've been tempted to pour a certain rum over waffles a couple of times (but please don't tell anyone).:)

[Hank Koestner]

What's all the fuss? I DID pour one over my pancakes this morning............

[angelsword]

Was`the rum over pancakes one of those over sweetened with corn syrup flavored concoctions? :rolleyes:

[Dood]

Rum over waffles...

*runs to the store to buy waffles*

[Tiare]

This was an interesting discussion and I came in late enough to not really have anything more to add, its all said - its the right balance, the right match, the right rum..and the right ingredients..
I believe in fresh ingredients, fresh squeezed fruits etc...and coke..NO..
I like a cold coke with ice sometimes, but NOT with rum (or any other alcohol for that matter), only some fresh squeezed lime.
Coke and rum just doesnґt agree with my tastebuds.

[angelsword]

Coke and rum just doesnґt agree with my tastebuds.
Quite sacrilegious, but I like Coke and Lagavulin. The coke really balances out the extra heavy peaty in this Scotch.

[Tiare]

Hey, that sounds a bit odd to me..;-) but I`m not a whisky drinker so what do I know? as long as you like what you drink..:D