Lanceros

[KINGSTON]

Just read a great article in the new Cigar Aficionado (Keven Costner) about the "re-popularity" of Lanceros. Lanceros or Gran Pantelas are traditionally 38 Ring Gauge by 7 1/2 Inches Long.

I enjoy the size. I started smoking coronas about 10-12 years ago. I moved to robustos about 5 to 6 years ago. I have spent the last 2 to 3 years smoking larger ring gauges (trendy they may be) 56 to 60 ring gauge. I have found my self the last 6 months or so smoking coronas, petit coronas and lanceros again.

I have really injoyed the- Nester Miranda Lancero, Tatuaje Especiale, Oliva Serive V Lancero, Casa Torano Maduro Lancero, Illusione Holy Lance.

I am looking forward to trying the- Carlos Torano Virtuoso Batan, CAO Lx2 Lancero, Alec Bradley Tempus Creo.

Two Questions????

1)Any suggestions on any other Lanceros that are a must try?

2)Since Post-Castro Cuba is the Grandfather of this Vitola, What are the opinions on the Cuban Lanceros??? Cohiba, Trinidad, etc......

[Matusalem]

On question number 2, those are quite expensive smokes, but some of the most refined Cuba has to offer!

The one thing I would say about both the (Cohiba) Lanceros and (Trinidad) Fundadores both require good smoking technique. They also require some attention in storage. If kept improperly they can be notorious for having poor draws. Also if I remember correctly, the Fundadores has slightly more girth than the Lanceros and is actually classified by its namesake rather than the Laguito No.1 classification.

You might also explore the Montecristo Especial - that's also a Laguito No.1. Vegueros also makes a smoke that is the same dimensions, but not nearly as highly regarded.

[SuperCorona]

To me, the Montecristo Especial No.1 is the benchmark Cuban lancero. The complexity of a properly aged and stored Especial No.1 is amazing. Keep these around 62% RH and smoke them slowly. If you clip one and get a tight draw, don't try to smoke it. Put it into a lower humidity environment and try it again in a few weeks. These will open up eventually, unless they suffered from very poor construction. I've had very few plugged Especial No.1s. Many more construction problems with Cohiba Lanceros than Monte and Trinidad combined in my experience. My other <40 RG favorites are the ERdM Grandes de Espana, Partagas SdC No.1 and Punch Ninfa.

In the NC group, the Don Carlos Lancero tops them all. This is a difficult cigar to find. As far as I know, Casa Fuente in Vegas is the only retail shop selling these on an irregular basis. This hard to find cigar is well worth the effort to hunt down a few.

[KINGSTON]

I will be out in Vegas for the IPCPR next week. I will have to search out the Fuente Don Carlos Lancero. I have to addmit i'm not a big fuente fan, but the Don Carlos line would be my choice out of their exstensive portfolio. I have sceen their Opus X petit Lancero on the market lately. I may pick that- given that their are so few Lanceros to try.

I have smoked a Cuban Cobiba Lancero twice many years ago. I bought them from the Havana Humidor in the Atantis Resort in the Bahamas. All I can remember was that they were plugged. Overall I would love to get my hands on some on the Montecristo, Cohiba & the Trinidad. I hear good things about El Rey del Mundo de Espana. Any one who knows me knows that i'm not the biggest Cuban fan, but from my understanding there quality control has gotten better over the last few years. These are some Cubans I will be trying to get my hands on in the near future.

[SuperCorona]

The Petit Lancero is my favorite of the regular OpusX production line. When OpusX first became available west of the Mississippi, the PL was always the last size to sell out. Everyone bought the larger ring gauge smokes. IMO, the higher OpusX wrapper to filler ratio the better.

Any of the Cuban lanceros produced in 2003 or later should be pretty good from a construction standpoint. I'd love to find a box or two of '03 Fundadores and Especial No.1. In the Cohiba line, I prefer the Siglo V lonsdale to the Lancero. The ultimate lancero to me would be a Vegas Robainia Lancero. cigar.gif

[Don Piero]

The Petit Lancero is my favorite of the regular OpusX production line. When OpusX first became available west of the Mississippi, the PL was always the last size to sell out. Everyone bought the larger ring gauge smokes. IMO, the higher OpusX wrapper to filler ratio the better.

Any of the Cuban lanceros produced in 2003 or later should be pretty good from a construction standpoint. I'd love to find a box or two of '03 Fundadores and Especial No.1. In the Cohiba line, I prefer the Siglo V lonsdale to the Lancero. The ultimate lancero to me would be a Vegas Robainia Lancero. cigar.gif

Super C, I really appreciate your insight on the Habanos. Will be trying to get my hands on the Robainia Classico.

[SuperCorona]

Super C, I really appreciate your insight on the Habanos. Will be trying to get my hands on the Robainia Classico.

I think I've still got a few '98 Classicos stashed away somewhere...great smoke! drooling3.gif

[Hank Koestner]

I did have an opportunity to enjoy a Cohiba Lancero a couple of months ago, and loved it. It is the only Cuban Lancero I have ever had, and i hope to try a few more.
I really enjoy a good Lancero, I have Tatuaje which are great, and I also like La Flor Dominicana. There are a number of producers who call a cigar a Lancero, but they are not true to the size. For instance, Padilla, his 1932 and Miami 8 & 11 are larger ring gauges then 38 or 40.

[Matusalem]

To be clear, I'm not certan about world markets and their terminology. . . but the Cohiba Lancero is not a "lancero" - so far as I know, there is no official size defined as "lancero".

The factory classification / name is Laguito № 1. It would appear that the notoriety of the Cohiba named cigar has carried to represent a size & style, across markets.

Technically, with Cubans, the same goes for the term "lonsdale". It would appear all Cuban vitolas with the terminology "lonsdale" in their title are Cervantes - but not all Cervantes classified vitolas carry the word "lonsdale" in their name. The "Siglo V" was a good example.

盒

[KINGSTON]

Trying to make sense of cigar sizes (Vitolas), is like trying to decode an ancient langauge that dose not exist any more. To confuse things even more, the factory gives names to cigars sizes and shapes that differ from their classification and can differ from their advertised name. Such as with the Cohiba Lancero. In the Factory it is a Laguito No.1. It is considered a Pantela or a Gran Pantela. But it is sold as a Lancero.

But to say,"the Cobiba Lancero is not a Lanceo"?????? It is a Lancero. Because that is what they want to call it.

I'm just trying to start a conversation about long thin cigars. Lanceros. Pantelas. Cervantes. Laguito No.1. What ever you want to call them.

[Matusalem]

2 things ... (1)Just pointing out that you won't want to go to Cuba and ask for other "lanceros". (2) are you talking about generic styles or actual terminology? Cohiba Lanceros do not fit the Cuban Pantelas or Pantelas Largas definition / dimensions.

To save some trouble, here are most of the Cuban classifications by dimension:


1) ALMUERZOS - 5 1/8" x 40 (130 x 15.88 mm)
2) BRITANICAS - 5 3/8" x 46 (137 x 18.26 mm)
3) CADETES - 4 1/2" x 36 (115 x 14.29 mm)
4) CAMPANAS - 5 1/2" x 52 (140 x 20.64 mm)
5) CARLOTAS - 5 5/8" x 35 (143 x 13.89 mm)
6) CAROLINAS - 4 3/4" x 26 (121 x 10.32 mm)
7) CAZADORES - 6 3/8" x 44 (162 x 17.46 mm)
8) CERVANTES - 6 1/2" x 42 (165 x 16.67 mm)
9) CORONAS - 5 5/8" x 42 (142 x 16.67 mm)
10) CORONAS GORDAS - 5 5/8" x 46 (143 x 18.26 mm)
11) CORONAS GRANDES - 6 1/8" x 42 (155 x 16.67 mm)
12) COSACOS - 5 3/8" x 42 (135 x 16.67 mm)
13) DALIAS - 6 3/4" x 43 (170 x 17.07 mm)
14) DELICADOS - 7 1/2" x 38 (192 x 15.08 mm)
15) DELICADOS EXTRA - 7 1/4" x 36 (185 x 14.29 mm)
16) ENTREACTOS - 3 7/8" x 30 (100 x 11.91 mm)
17) ESPECIALES - 5 1/4" x 45 (134 x 17.86 mm)
18) EXQUISITOS - 5 3/4" x 45 (146 x 17.86 mm)
19) FAVORITOS - 4 3/4" x 42 (121 x 16.67 mm)
20) FRANCISCANOS - 4 1/2" x 40 (116 x 15.88 mm)
21) FRANCISCOS - 5 5/8" x 44 (143 x 17.46 mm)
22) GENEROSOS - 5 1/4" x 42 (133 x 16.67 mm)
23) GRAN CORONA - 9 1/4" x 47 (235 x 18.65 mm)
24) HERMOSOS No.4 - 5" x 48 (127 x 19.05 mm)
25) JULIETA 2 - 7" x 47 (178 x 18.65 mm)
26) LONDRES - 5" x 40 (126 x 15.88 mm)
27) MAREVAS - 5 1/8" x 42 (129 x 16.67 mm)
28) MINUTOS - 4 3/8" x 42 (110 x 16.67 mm)
29) NINFAS - 7" x 33 (178 x 13.10 mm)
30) (LAGUITO) No.1 - 7 1/2" x 38 (192 x 15.08 mm)
31) (LAGUITO) No.2 - 6" x 38 (152 x 15.08 mm)
32) (LAGUITO) No.3 - 4 1/2" x 26 (115 x 10.32 mm)
33) PALMAS - 6 3/4" x 33 (170 x 13.10 mm)
34) PALMITAS - 6" x 32 (152 x 12.70 mm)
35) PANETELAS - 4 5/8" x 34 (117 x 13.49 mm)
36) PANETELAS LARGAS - 6 7/8" x 28 (175 x 11.11 mm)
37) PAREJOS - 6 1/2" x 38 (166 x 15.08 mm)
38) PERLAS - 4" x 40 (102 x 15.88 mm)
39) PETIT BOUQUET - 4" x 43 (102 x 17.07 mm)
40) PIRAMIDES - 6 1/8" x 52 (156 x 20.64 mm)
41) PLACERAS - 4 7/8" x 34 (125 x 13.49 mm)
42) PROMINENTES - 7 5/8" x 49 (194 x 19.45 mm)
43! ) ROBUST OS - 4 7/8" x 50 (124 x 19.84 mm)
44) SEOANE - 5" x 36 (126 x 14.29 mm)
45) SUPERIORES - 5 3/4" x 40 (146 x 15.88 mm)
46) TACOS - 6 1/4" x 47 (158 x 18.65 mm)
47) TRABUCOS - 4 3/8" x 38 (110 x 15.08 mm)

[KINGSTON]

I don't think I will be going to Cuba any time soon. But thanks for the info.

Once again, I just want to talk about Long thin cigars!!!! I work in the premium cigar industry- The word Lancero has become a term used by many cigar makers, Fuente, Torano, La Flor, the list goes on and on......believe me they do not put as much thought into it as some people on chat rooms do.

Let's stop being so "by the book"-

Some times I think we over analyse things to much on this web site. Who care if you use two spoon fulls of sugar in your Mojito and I use three! Call it a Laguito No.1 I'll call it a Lancero.

Can't we all just SMOKE along!

[Hank Koestner]

Obviously then, the Cohiba Lancero is actually a Laguito #1. But, If I am not mistaken, don't they market them as Lanceros? That is the market name according to Perelman's.

Has anyone else tried any Lanceros (non Cuban) that they really like? I named two in a past post, and I really love those. They have amazing flavor, and I think you really get a dose of the wrapper flavor with the thin gauge. You do see more brands trying Lancero sizes, and the blenders seem to love the challenge of making a good one.

[KINGSTON]

Hank your right on. Their was no Laguito No.1 before the Cohiba Brand was created. The very first "Lancero" was the Cohiba. It created the "Lancero" name being used to describe a Cigar Size. In the Cuban Factory it is reffered to as the Laguito No.1. Before Cohiba their was no "lancero" or Laguito No.1. Their were how ever Pantelas.

Hank you should get your hands on the Oliva Serie V Lancero, it is damn good. The wrapper really shines. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the Carlos Torano Virtuoso Banton (Lancero).

Good luck finding them. Some people on this sight seem to think "Lanceros" don't exist!

[Rum Runner]

Some times I think we over analyse things to much on this web site. Who care if you use two spoon fulls of sugar in your Mojito and I use three! Call it a Laguito No.1 I'll call it a Lancero.

Can't we all just SMOKE along!

One of the things I enjoy about this forum is the fact that so many members have a diverse knowledge and passion on a range of subjects. Be it mixology, cigars, or certain types of rum.

While whether two or three spoonfuls of sugar make the Mojito go down may not change my view on the subject, I'm happy to learn of other members views.

To come back on topic, I too enjoy the Lancero size cigar. I mostly smoke a Corona size. Lancero is a close second. Robusto is my third choice.

I have no Experience with the Cubans in this size. I have enjoyed the Palma Delgado style of Lancero from Nestor Placencia in his Maria Mancini line.

[SuperCorona]

It's good to have knowledge about the factory sizes and shapes. I think the Cuban cigar business and it's history is fascinating. While enjoying a Serie D No.4 tonight, I'd rather try to solve the gas price crisis than worry about my cigar being a robusto or a hermosos No.4. ;)

[Matusalem]

Hank, the Cohiba brand was not introduced to public market til 1982. The brand began in 1966. The converted mansion used for production became known as El Laguito. Self explantory - the 3 cigar sizes made were Laguito No.1- Laguito No.3. The term or title "Lanceros" came along later. The first Laguito No.1 that I recall available to the public was a decade before the Cohiba Lanceros was sold publicly - The Montecristo Especial No.1 and around the same time frame, the Davidoff #1 hit the market
____________________________________________
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Valid points, KINGSTON. For me, I guess it depends how one intends to use this forum. Casually then you're absolutely right. As a reference resource and you being in the premium cigar world, is it really necessary to go into the importance of "by the book"?

I'll bow out of this one as I can see it rubbed you the wrong way. For some people rum and rhum are all the same thing. For others that isn't necessarily the case. Count me as "other".

To me personally, it would have been quite a bit less complicated to simply say "Let's talk about lengthy small ring gauged cigars" instead of insisting on cross terminology that might be open to personal interpretation or application. While you have the inside track from the premium cigar trade, and can probably disseminate whether one is talking generically about "tissue" or specifically about "Kleenex", it places the bar pretty high to assume everyone else is following along in the exact context you're speaking in.

Additionally, you and I might not be headed south of Miami any time soon, that doesn't mean every individual that might stumble upon & read this forum isn't and wouldn't appreciate accurate data points.

-out

[KINGSTON]

Ok ok ok ok, back to my point. This thread was about making suggestions to each other about really good Lanceros that, We must get our hands on and light up.

Matusalem- It's all good. We have two different ways at looking at things. In fact I disagree with a few of your accounts concerning "Cohiba". Guess what?? I own about a dozen books new and old and really really old cigar books. They each have differnt accounts about the brand and the Lancero size. Matusalem, I respect you- I don't mean to get under your skin. I just wanted to start a thread about "Lanceros" style cigars. The fact is is that the "Facts" about Cigars and or Rum can change a bit depending on who you ask. AND THAT IS A FACT. Please don't pull of this thread because of our disagreement.

I apoligize if I came off harsh or with an attitude. I've realized something working in the Premium Cigar Industry-
Some body's full bodied cigar is some body's mild.
Some body's Toro or Corona Gorda is some body's Double Robusto.
Some body loves Cubans some body hates them.

I even argued with a guy at an event once. He told me he only smoked Cubans. Then we proceeded to buy two Cohiba Red Dotes. He tried to convince me that the Dominican Cohiba was really Cuban- He said, That they just ship them from Havana to the Dominican for shipping. So they can legally bring them into the country.

Their are a thousands opinions out their, and every one thinks their right.

[SuperCorona]

I even argued with a guy at an event once. He told me he only smoked Cubans. Then we proceeded to buy two Cohiba Red Dotes. He tried to convince me that the Dominican Cohiba was really Cuban- He said, That they just ship them from Havana to the Dominican for shipping. So they can legally bring them into the country.

Now that's a good one!

Back on topic... a few years ago, I was bidding on several boxes of mid-80s Dunhill Atados that showed up in a Christie's auction. Expected sale price was listed at Ј400/box, so I gave my bidder a ceiling of Ј600/box. He called me the next day and said they went for over Ј800/box. Then he told me he picked up some boxes of 1990 Rafael Gonzalez Slenderellas. I was able to score 2 boxes for just over Ј210 total. These have been so good....as good as the Atados I've smoked. I've seen some 5 or 6 yr old boxes available lately. This is a fantastic morning smoke with some good coffee. Time to stock up, I think.

I'm looking forward to trying a La Aurora Preferido Lancero. Almost 7" of Cameroon wrapper sounds pretty good to me.

[Matusalem]

Thanks for the response KINGSTON.

First off I wanted to clear up something – I wasn’t upset – I got the feeling I was rubbing you the wrong way.

Secondly I wanted to clarify something because I think you are absolutely right – we were approaching the issue from two totally separate but at the same time viable viewpoints.

Obviously I realize the gentrification of the term “Lanceros”. This is one of the reasons I inquired what context the discussion was meant. While “Lanceros” has become a somewhat bastardized (depending on how you look at it) term – does that really mean we have to sign on and further that cause - especially if we collectively recognize it is a term that was taken and run with?

That too depends on what the intent or use of is meant. Bad grammar is common too, but does that mean a resource devoted to proper word usage or even a simple resource that you’d expect to have the best available information - be a good place to purposely use slang’ and poor grammar? To me the answer is no – but that again is based upon my perceived personal intent.

I’m not knocking you individually – were it simply you making a statement I disagree with, it wouldn’t be worth the time or trouble to debate. The fact is as you rightfully point out – the loose usage of the terminology is industry wide. Having some relation to the business – I am sure you can agree that the level of imprecise information that circulates with regards to cigars is just as prevalent as the disinformation that exists and surfaces across the spirits industries.

I realize this site is about rum first and foremost. If in fact the cigar forum is an educational component of the over-all forum, I think it is equally as important to fill it with the best information we have available to us - and not to necessarily perpetuate slogans or whatever other marginal terminologies have come into play due to popularity, notoriety, or scarcity.

In truth I have no problem with the reference to cigars of other origins with actual titles that contain the term “Lanceros” but don’t fit the dimensional description of Cuban Cohiba Lanceros. What I think is a bit of a step in the wrong direction is to keep referring to the Cohiba Lanceros as the central benchmark of the discussion while throwing in the other “Lanceros” as if the only real difference is the country of origin and to further use the term as if it represents a concrete vitola size.

To better present my point on the issue from that angle, let’s stay with the Cuban theme. Examine the H. Upman Gran Cornonas. And then let’s talk about the other Cuban “Gran Coronas”, like the Montecristo A or Sancho Panza – Sanchos, or the limited edition Cohibas of yesteryear. This is an exaggeration to some extent but hopefully you can appreciate where I'm going with cross terminology.

The Upman Gran Corona was 40 x 5.7” ...the Monte & Sancho which by classification are “Gran Coronas” are 47 x 9.3”. The term crosses the three but you can see the whopping difference if you attempt to take these three mentioned cigars a compare them based on similar terms used.

Maybe I’m wrong but it would seem way more concise to say I like skinny cigars like (or such as) the Cohiba Lanceros and some other makers cigars that are also called Lanceros – than to say “what other Lanceros do everybody else like” meaning what other thin ring gauge, lengthy cigars are preferred.

I hope I’m not stepping on your toes while trying my best to explain my position as to the importance or where I thought the choice in terms went from black on white to slightly gray – if you will.

[Torpnubber]

I have to admit, I'm not a big lover of this vitola.

To smoke this size properly, you need upward of 1.5 to 2 hours of time. I rarely have that much time to devote to a cigar. I also seem to have had some bad experiences with lanceros (plugged, tight, burning hot).

Probably the best I've had was a Partagas Serie du Connoisseur No 1 that was gifted to me. It was earthy, typical Partagas aroma that is just remarkable.

I also enjoyed a Top Shelf Signature Select Black from Jim Cronin. Just a beautifully produced cigar by Arcenio Ramos at Tropical's Raices Cubanas factory. Jam packed with Criollo filler and binder with a lovely Corojo wrapper.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/fish4666/cigars/DSCN0151.jpg

Lanceros seem to be the new big thing. Unfortunately, I won't be jumping on board. More for you fellas

[Lew Barrett]

This cigar may have been mentioned already, or I may have missed this, but I was a fan of the RG Slenderella for many years. Not a very expensive cigar, long and thin almost to the point of absurdity, but a delightfully satisfying smoke when good, which they usually were. It's been a number of years since I've had one, so things may have changed, but I wouldn't mind sucking one down again if memory serves.

[SuperCorona]

The main reason I love the lancero/laguito No.1/long&thin size is the very reason torpnubber says he's not a big fan. I reach for one of these specifically when I will have the time to smoke it properly. If I'm leaving the house with one, I'll always clip it while at home to check for a proper draw. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to smoke a tight cigar. Anything but a perfect draw can cause this size to smoke hot and bitter. One puff just often enough to keep it lit is optimal, about once a minute. Add a premium sipper like Pampero Aniversario and you've got a very nice evening going. cheers.gif

[Sir Diggamus]

Great thread!

+1 on the ERDM Grandes Espana and the Partagas Serie du Connoisseur#1. Great smokes! And if you like this style and don't have two hours+ to enjoy them you could always grab the Cohiba Coronas Especiales, Montecristo Especiale#2, or the Partagas Serie du Connoisseur#3. These all are about half the size of the Lancero and share similar flavor profiles of their longer brothers. I think if you are looking for a milder smoke the ERDM is a good choice.

I am a lover of thinner cigars and agree with the above statements that when these are sipped rather than puffed you get a much more enjoyable experience from them.

[emeraldsmoke]

Some of the new & very good Lanceros out right now are.

Illusione-Holy Lance (smoke one tonight with a couple of fingers of Ron Zacapa Centenario 23 yr old)

Alec Bradley -Tempest

La Flor Dominicna

Nester Miranda-Special Select

J. Fuego -Delirium (one of the best sticks of the IPCPR show)

This is just to name a few.

I find it refreshing to see the trend heading back to lanceros and petite coronas & panatellas. The smaller ring gauges are definently coming back.

[Hank Koestner]

There are a few here I need to try! And, by the way torp, that is a pretty Lancero!

[Alan]

I am a fan of smaller ring cigars. As long as there are no construction problems a lancero is a fine vitola to enjoy.

I had the opportunity to smoke a Santo custom double lancero. Now talk about a long smoke. 3 hours minimum but it had a great draw, a consistent flavor profile that did get a bit intense near the end. A novelty for sure but says a lot for custom habanos cigars.

[Matusalem]

I think you are probably referring to Santos -- as in Crisantos. Great roller , especially if you gravitate to robust blends / smokes.

Those DLs strangely remind me of 16' battleship guns!
cheers.gif

[SuperCorona]

I finally had time to sit down and relax with a El Triunfador Lancero tonight. This is like smoking a stick of candy. Nice sweet tobacco flavors are mixing well with the glass of Oronoco I'm nursing. The perfect construction and draw is letting me enjoy this to the fullest. The maduro wrapper is very tasty and provides a long pleasant finish with the Nic filler. Pete Johnson hit another home run with this one.