Marie Galante Rhum Agricole

[rumdog007]

Has anyone heard of Marie Galante- Rhum Agricole (Gold Rum) 50%? Found a bottle tonight. Thanks!

[Michael]

The name sounds generic, like Martinique - Rhum Agricole. Pardon the question, but is there any other information on the labels?

[Rum Runner]

Here's a pic I found on a rum review site (http://www.wedgeworld.com/rum/pages/galante_JPG.htm). The resolution does not allow one to make out the fine print on the label. This may be what rumdog found.

[Count Silvio]

They have an interesting "review" style.

Comments for Barbancourt 15 Year from that site:
"urinal fresh
TIRE TASTE
wet suit"

Maybe I should consider taking this approach on Refined Vices.

[Rum Runner]

They have an interesting "review" style.

Comments for Barbancourt 15 Year from that site:
"urinal fresh
TIRE TASTE
wet suit"

Maybe I should consider taking this approach on Refined Vices.

They certainly employ some interesting descriptors, don't they? There seems to be a lack of consistency across the reviews on that site in my opinion, but to each his own.

I would not suggest you take the same approach Count.

[RumClub]

Maybe you are referring to this one...
http://www.velier.it/Catalogo/index_categorie?id_prod=145
Don't you?

[Michael]

All of the rhums from Distillerie Bielle seem to have the distillery name on label, don't they?

[rumdog007]

Here's a pic I found on a rum review site (http://www.wedgeworld.com/rum/pages/galante_JPG.htm). The resolution does not allow one to make out the fine print on the label. This may be what rumdog found.


That's the one Rum Runner! Thanks! Michael is probably right about the "generic" thing. There's nothing else on the label. Some french nonsense about Chistopher Columbus's discovery of Marie Galante...

Hey, I'll give it a try...been a while since I've tasted a well aged, but complex, urinal.cheers.gif

[rumdog007]

Well I've had the chance to try this rhum agricole. I'm not sure after tasting it that it really is what it claims to be. But, the good news is that I can''t complain about the ti' punch which I am having. It packs a 50% wallop, though. Sure, a little more sugar than usual was called for. But, not bad, either. As with cheaper Cachaзas, it's the lime and the sugar which make it all fun. Forrest taught me that lesson with lesser rums.gzzg

[Hank Koestner]

According to what I have read and been told, there are some rhums from Marie Gallante that might be better than the one you have. It does look very generic. They make thier rhums in the French agricole style, though they are not as polished as say, Martinque. If you check the site on RumClubs reply, that shows a good selection from Marie Gallante. I have always wanted to taste these rhums, drool.gifbut have not had the opportunity as of yet. I think Ed can give you more info. I agree, when in doubt, a little lime and sugar goes a long way.party1.gif

[Edward Hamilton]

The label on the picture referenced above doesn't look like anything I've seen on Marie Galante. I'm a little surprised that it's bottled at 50% and the label says GOLD RUM. I'd have to guess that this is a product made for the US market since this label wouldn't be approved for sale in France or the French West Indies; you can't use an island name as the brand name. I've been contacted by someone in California that wanted to pick my brain about the rhum agricole market but I haven't been able to connect with him and I don't see this rum listed on the TTB public registry.

Who is listed as the importer on the back of the bottle?

[Bill]

http://www.rum.cz/galery/cam/gp/sodipa/img/gp128.jpghttp://www.rum.cz/galery/cam/gp/c-marsolle/img/gp414.jpg

These are a couple labels from Peter's wonderful rum label site (link (http://www.rum.cz/galery/cam/gp/)). I noted quite a few rums from Marie Galante labeled in this fashion (featuring "rhum agricole" and "Marie Galante"), and bottled at 50%. Hope this helps.

[Edward Hamilton]

Sodipa and Claude Marsolle are private label bottlers on Guadeloupe, and neither of these rhums were made or bottled on Marie Galante.

[rumdog007]

Thanks, everyone for the input! I finished the bottle and it was actually quite good. Since I am not an expert in the nuances (subtle or overt!) of agricoles, I can only say that it makes a fine Ti' Punch with very different character. In fact, I have about 12 different agricoles and not one of them sparks a Ti' Punch in quite the same way. I believe that's why I like them so much. If I saw another bottle of this stuff at the $12.00 price which I paid, I would definitely snag it for consumption. gzzg

[Edward Hamilton]

$12 for a 750ml of rhum agricole isn't going to last long, or it wasn't bottled in the French islands, but if you can buy it for $12 and you enjoyed it, I'd go back for more.

[Bill]

Interesting. I do know that Guadeloupe is actually a region made up of an archepelago of islands, Marie Galante being one. I guess you would refer to it as Marie Galante, Guadeloupe. I also learned that Marie Galante at one time had over a hundred sugar mills and many more distilleries than the remaining three.

What confuses me is that both these labels boldly exclaim "Marie Galante". The first label says "bouteille pour", bottled for Sodipa, the second says "distribue par", or distributed by Claude Marsolle. The second label also says "produit a", or product of Marie Galante.

Sure seems like these rums originated on MG regardless of who they were bottled for or who distributed them. Am I missing something?

[rumdog007]

Thanks, Ed. It was an "old dusty" loner on the close-out table at Vendrome. Imported by Preiss Imports, Whittier, CA.

"Decouvertel 3, novembre, 1493 par Christophe Colomb.
l'ile de Marie-Galante est le paradis de la canne a sucre
Le grand rhum agricole de Marie Galante est issu du seal jus de la canne a sucre
et il est distille a Grande-Anse selon les anciennes traditions."

That's the small print. BTW, I omitted all the accent marks.

[Bill]

This is fun. Here's how one of the translators reads that...

"Discovered November 3, 1493 by Christophe Colomb. l' island of Marie-Gallant is the paradise of the sugar cane. The great agricultural rum of Marie Galante is resulting from the juice of the sugar cane and is distilled Large-Handle according to the old traditions".

Oy vey!

[Rum Runner]

Thanks, Ed. It was an "old dusty" loner on the close-out table at Vendrome. Imported by Preiss Imports, Whittier, CA.

"Decouvertel 3, novembre, 1493 par Christophe Colomb.
l'ile de Marie-Galante est le paradis de la canne a sucre
Le grand rhum agricole de Marie Galante est issu du seal jus de la canne a sucre
et il est distille a Grande-Anse selon les anciennes traditions."

That's the small print. BTW, I omitted all the accent marks.

The final line of that fine print says distilled in Grande Anse. There is a sugar refinery in Grande Anse on Marie Galante, but no distillery ,to my knowledge.

As to the labels referenced on Peter's page, there really isn't any information on those labels that gives provenance to actually being produced on Marie Galante in my opinion.

[rumdog007]

Bill, I'll drink to ALL of that! But, tonight it's La Favorite. At least I will know it's the real deal. Thanks, also, Rum Runner for the additional info. Now, I wish I had some more just because, as a curiosity, it was pretty good. Maybe, not an agricole , but an interesting taste.

[Bill]

I found a chamber of commerce, visitors type site (both in French and English) based in and about Marie Galante. Turns out there is a company whose business name is "SUCRERIE ET RHUMERIE DE MARIE GALANTE" in the Grand Anse section of the island.

Yahoo's Babelfish translates this as "sugar refinery and rhum distillery". So I'd have to say Rumdog's bottle is authentic, what a neat find! As far as Peter's labels go the use of "Rhum Agricole Marie Galante" in bold letters, and the phrase "produit a (product of) Marie Galante" is pretty convincing to me.

Seems as though Marie Galante is a beautiful, quaint and relatively unspoiled island that I'd love to visit sometime.

[Michael]

... As far as Peter's labels go the use of "Rhum Agricole Marie Galante" in bold letters, and the phrase "produit a (product of) Marie Galante" is pretty convincing to me.
...

No offense intended, but, given the frequency of misrepresentation in rum labeling, it is hard to understand what you find so persuasive in these proclamations.

[Bill]

None taken, none taken. The only misrepresentation, if you want to call it that, usually has to do with age statements and what they mean. Is a "12 year old rum" at least 12 years old? Is it an average? The oldest rum? Or how about the term "anejo"? How old does that mean. And so on. But few if any outright deceptions that I've ever seen.

And since there is rum produced, with pride I assume, over the entirety of the Guadeloupe region I'm having trouble understanding why rum produced in another part of the region, say Grand Terre would falsely claim to be from Marie Galante. There appear to only be a handful of distilleries in this area anyway, all of whom I'd guess are pretty proud of their products, and pretty unlikely to stand for it anyway.

No reason to lie. Hey, it's not like China making phony Gucci purses for sale in the bazaar. From what I can see, Marie Galante is a very small and attractive destination, down to earth and pretty honest I'd bet.

Not to mention that Peter seems to be a pretty scrupulous researcher, even lists addresses, phones, etc. His website is truly amazing.

Now I've got to get back to making some simple syrup, all this talk about agricoles has whetted my interest in a Ti Punch.

[Rum Runner]

I'm having trouble understanding why rum produced in another part of the region, say Grand Terre would falsely claim to be from Marie Galante. There appear to only be a handful of distilleries in this area anyway, all of whom I'd guess are pretty proud of their products, and pretty unlikely to stand for it anyway.

No reason to lie. Hey, it's not like China making phony Gucci purses for sale in the bazaar. From what I can see, Marie Galante is a very small and attractive destination, down to earth and pretty honest I'd bet.

Bill, I agree that when it comes to the distillers they do take great pride in their product and don't stand for too much fooling around within their own ranks.

However, when it comes to bottlers buying in bulk and then private labeling...Well, that's horse of a different colour. Often these private labels are being sold only in far flung markets, not on the local Islands. The locals may have no idea what is being sold in different countries with their Island name on it. Just as a recent example, There was a fairly expensive ($30) rum which had garnered some very positive attention from some reviewers in the USA...It was labelled "Martinique Agricole" with the sub-title "Appellation Rum Controlee". You might think it was produced on Martinique? Even had the stamp of approval from the French Government with that Appellation name?

It turns out it was "aged and bottled" in France, and the USA importer (though stating otherwise here on this forum) could not produce a single piece of appropriate paperwork from the bottler to back the claims of "Martinique Agricole" and it turns out that "Appellation Rum Controlee" does not even exist.

It's my understanding that this rum will no longer be seeing it's way onto shelves.

The labels you cited from Peter seem typical of bottlers labelling wordplay. The left hand one does not state made in Marie Galante..or even Guadeloupe, Though you might think it was. On the right hand label the juxtaposition of the word Guadeloupe on top and Marie Galante on the bottom with "Produit a " in the middle would lead one to think it was produced on Marie Galante, but that is not honestly clear to me.

Rumdog's bottle fine print stating distilled in Grande Anse is curious. While I accept your finding that the sugar refinery there has the word "Rhumerie" in it's title, I can find no reference to it being active as such on Marie Galante in recent times. I'm happy to be corrected here though. I can only find three active distilleries on Marie Galante.

My points are not meant to take you to task, but rather to suggest that the truth is only as good as the source...As a reporter you already know this. Personally, I would not use a bottler as a primary source of truthful information.

Hope you enjoyed that Ti Punch!

Salud!

[rumdog007]

Hi, Rum Runner, I went back and found the thread on the "Agricole" to which you refer. I must say that it was a very interesting saga in the annuls of MOR. But, in all of the salvos fired back and forth, I learned a lot from you, Ed, and Matusalem on the importance of authenticity and provenance. Thanks! I, now, have a greater appreciation for the diligence involved in keeping a product, or family of products, held to a high standard.

[Rum Runner]

Rumdog, glad you found that thread informative.

Upon browsing Peter's Guadeloupe page I did find a reference to the Grande Anse Distillery on Marie Galante. Further web searching found that the sugar factory/distillery on Marie Galante is operated by the French sugar giant Erstein (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?tt=url&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sucre-erstein.com%2Fbleu-entreprise.htm&lp=fr_en&.intl=us&fr=yfp-t-501). So I wonder what kind of rum they are producing there?

In any case, whether produced from cane juice, or molasses, or something in between, I doubt that the other Marie Galante producers or CODERUM would look favourably upon that label that Rumdog was in possession of.

[rumdog007]

BTW, I hit a few other Vendromes in the LA area and found 1 other "dusty" of this oddity. I'll keep it for evidence in case CODERUM is plannning an invasion anytime soon! Or, maybe when one of you cats are in town, we'll test it together!

[Bill]

The green label "Produit a Marie Galante", product of Marie Galante was distributed by Claude Marsolle, apparently a well known and respected distiller, who won the Medaille d'Or at the Concours General Agricole de Paris in 1993. That's pretty credible. Peter also cites our own Ed Hamilton on Marsolle. The other label clearly states "bottled for Sodipa" is also a company known to Peter and Ed.

As far as the Rhumerie (distillery) I found on Marie Galante, my source was the current official Marie Galante tourist board website (in both French and English). Their information, like Peter's, is complete and persuasive:

Company : SUCRERIE ET RHUMERIE DE MARIE GALANTE
Manager :
Address : Grande-Anse
Municipality : Grand Bourg MG - 97112
Phone : 0590978098

Honestly, considering how very, very few outright falsities occur it's really a stretch for me to doubt either these labels. Personally I'm convinced rum agricole was and likely still is produced on Marie Galante, and 50% is quite believeable considering that there were many, many agricoles produced in the Guadeloupe islands at that proof. Other proofs too of course.

Now, I'm gonna try my new cachaca. I deserve it, ha!

[Michael]

I'm having a bit of trouble determining why you conclude that information on labels for other rums purportedly from Marie Galante somehow prove the accuracy of the substantially different label on rumdog007's find. Did I miss something?

BTW arguing that one can't imagine a reason for a given act is hardly persuasive that the act has not in fact been committed.

[Edward Hamilton]

The Erstein distillery and sugar factory on the northwest side of Marie Galant does make rhum but it's not rhum agricole. That rhum is made from molasses and is used primarily in punches bottled and sold in France. You can't even buy any of that rhum on Marie Galante.

The Marsolle family has been in the rum business for generations, Claude Marsolle no longer distills his own rum but buys and bottles rum under his name. I was in Guadeloupe in 93 and a picture of his label is in my 2nd edition of Rums of the Eastern Caribbean. I found the warehouse in an industrial section of Point A Pitre and there was no pretense that his was anything other than a blended product with his name on it.

Marie Galante is a wonderful little island that I have enjoyed visiting many times. From Martinique, if the wind isn't too far north of east and the tide wasn't setting too far to the west between the islands I could sail it in one day from St Pierre. The problem is getting enough easting to be clear of the windward lee of Dominica. As the wind approaches a high island like Dominica the wind rises off the ocean and blows around and over it. At the north end of Martinique the wind tends to push a sailboat to the west as you clear the land and as you approach Dominica a sailboat will get a bit of a lift to windward if you are sailing from the leeward side of Martinique to the leeward side of Dominica.

But if you're trying to sail from the leeward side of Martinique north to the windward side of Dominica you're in for a tough slog hard on the wind, unless the wind is sout of east in which case it can be a nice sail. As you make your way east of Dominica if you aren't far enough off shore you'll experience seas like a clotheswasher and a lack of wind while the current will take you toward the steep rocky shores of Dominica. Not a good thing.

The last time I tried to sail from Martinique to Marie Galante I wasn't getting enough easting and decided to fall off the wind and sail around Dominica stopping in Portsmouth, on the northwest side of Dominica for the night and then sailing to Marie Galante in the morning. As I eased the sails and steadied the helm a nice kingfish took my lure and I ended up with about 25 pounds of kingfish steak. Another nice day on the ocean.

The first time I sailed to Marie Galante I sailed from Les Saintes, only 15 miles to leeward of Marie Galante. It was one of the roughest sails that year. The next time I learned that the way to get to Marie Galante, going north of south through the islands, is to leave from Portsmouth, Dominica. Leaving the island to starboard go hard on the wind as soon as you clear the island. The seas will be rough until you clear the relatively shallow 100 foot line a couple of miles off the north coast. The rest of the 27 mile sail is a nice windward tack and as you approach the island, which you can't usually see until you're within about 15 miles of the shore, you'll get lifted to your destination. The anchorage in Saint Louis is in about 12 feet of water over sand. The lights from town make a nice range and since it's open to the west it is easy to approach at night. The only hazard being a mooring ball for the fuel tanker that visits the island about once a month. About a mile and a half southwest of the anchorage is the sugar factory or sucrerie

[Rum Runner]

Ed, Thanks for that information.

Sailing the Islands is great. I helped crew a six pack on a 24 foot Tartan the other day. Off the South coast in six foot swells, East into a 15-20 knot wind. Not the most fun for those hanging the rail.

And thanks to Bill for bringing to light the distillery associated with the sugar factory. I suspected a reason why that distillery was so low on the "radar".

For the sake of clarity, The rhum that Marsolle took that award with was a blend of Guadeloupe proper, not Marie Galante, rhums as cited on Peter's page.

I believe that the the labels Bill referenced on Peter's page are probably long gone now.

I respect Bill's research and passion. And I'll agree to disagree with his view on this particular subject, Yet remain friends.


I will agree to a Ron del Barillto Two Star and fresh passion fruit juice with a squeeze of limon though, with no aspersions cast on Cachaca.

[Michael]

Thanks Ed and Rum Runner for the breath of fresh island air. We look forward to visiting Marie Galante and Puerto Rico soon.

[Rum Runner]

Thanks Ed and Rum Runner for the breath of fresh island air. We look forward to visiting Marie Galante and Puerto Rico soon.

Should you and your better half choose to visit "La Isla Nena" You shall be received as family.

[Bill]

Ed, what a lovely description of your sailing adventures in that area. I sail enough in the Lake Erie Islands (Put In Bay, Bass Islands, etc.) to be dangerous, and to understand those kinds of challenges. It's one of my long term dreams to go for a sailabout in the Carib, esp. as much as I like rum and the whole idea.

What do you think of the Gentlemans Guide I think it's called?

[Michael]

Should you and your better half choose to visit "La Isla Nena" You shall be received as family.

That is very kind. We wouldn't think of coming to Puerto Rico without visiting the little sister just to the East.

Your graciousness, humor and erudition help make this site such a fine refuge for rum lovers. We'd welcome the opportunity to make your acquaintance.

[Bill]

Late breaking news...

I found a couple more resources, one for news from Marie Galante and also a business directory, both in French. Turns out that the distillery I found through the tourist board, Sucrerie et rhumerie de Marie-Galante, is one and the same as the one found by Rum Runner, and known to Ed, that was taken over by Erstein.

I found a news article that announced the takeover and modernization of this distillery, the news was apparently very well received on the island as it saved this distillery from going out of business.

Although as Ed pointed out this distillery does produce rum from molasses, turns out it also produces rhum agricole per the current French business directory I found.

Sucrerie et rhumerie de Marie-Galante
(Usine de Grande-Anse Grand Bourg)
Fabrication de sucre et de rhum agricole et industriel
Contact : 05 90 97 80 98

Roughly translated "fabrication of sugar and of rhum agricole and industrial", in Grande-Anse, telephone listed. Dog's rhum agricole may yet be a live one!

[Rum Runner]

Roughly translated "fabrication of sugar and of rhum agricole and industrial", in Grande-Anse, telephone listed. Dog's rhum agricole may yet be a live one!

Your findings make the story even more curious. If in fact Erstein is producing Agricole, why would they not sell it on Marie Galante where they would have a local and loyal following?

One thing I do know is that if the other distillers on Marie Galante got wind that Erstein was producing any kind of rhum with the brand name "Marie Galante" (like the one rumdog is in possession of) they would be paid a visit by CODERUM tout suite.

[rumdog007]

Actually, it tasted like a pretty gold (molasses) rum. But, that said, something else is going on with it. Honey, clover, and a slight hint of cinnamon. I think that "Gold Rum" may be the most honest part of the label. That said, it's better than a few other "gold rums" which I have tasted. No hint of caramel.

[Bill]

Your findings make the story even more curious. If in fact Erstein is producing Agricole, why would they not sell it on Marie Galante where they would have a local and loyal following?

One thing I do know is that if the other distillers on Marie Galante got wind that Erstein was producing any kind of rhum with the brand name "Marie Galante" (like the one rumdog is in possession of) they would be paid a visit by CODERUM tout suite.

I don't think we know with certainty that they are not selling it there, but with the distillery there, and as a source of great pride, its likely they are.

Runner, I hope we are both understanding that the "Sucrerie et Rhumerie de Marie-Galante" company and distillery was/is located on Marie Galante, and remains there. It was failing, but Erstein bought them out, and according to the news article, made a large investment to improve and expand the facility. All on Marie Galante.

So the rum - both molasses and cane juice - are listed as being made at this Marie Galante facility, and could properly be labeled as such. As far as I've been able to determine, there are no other distilleries remaining on this island.

Appears that at one time there were many distilleries (over 100) in the Guadeloupe region, including MG, and now there are just a handful. Possibly four including this one on MG. But there's always the chance there are some very small distilleries that are just plain eluding the search.

Dog, does the bottle's label show anything that might indicate the distiller, bottling or distributor?

[Rum Runner]

Bill. Here is a link (http://www.ot-mariegalante.com/voir-dist-gb.htm) showing the other three distillers on Marie Galante. They, unlike Erstein, are prominent with their product on that Island.


You may notice that the other distillers state on their label that their product is from Marie Galante, which is allowable. However, French Law prohibits using "Marie Galante" as a "BRAND NAME", such as the one displayed on rumdog's bottle.

If you search rumdog's earlier post you will see the fine print on his bottle indicated in French, "made in Grande Anse by traditional methods", and the importer is a firm named Preiss, which is no longer listing that product.

[Michael]

...
Dog, does the bottle's label show anything that might indicate the distiller, bottling or distributor?

I find it a bit curious to try to definitively gauge the state of rum distillation and distribution on Marie Galante (or Guadeloupe generally) by searching the internet. Wouldn't careful research actually require visiting Marie Galante and the department of Guadeloupe generally, perhaps several times, before valid conclusions could be drawn?

It is refreshing that you finally decided to actually ask rumdog007 for any additional information on the label, but it is again curious that you imagine rumdog007 wouldn't have previously provided such information were it available.

I'll have to follow Rum Runner's example and agree to disagree. Perhaps we've been talking at cross purposes from the beginning.

[Bill]

You may notice that the other distillers state on their label that their product is from Marie Galante, which is allowable. However, French Law prohibits using "Marie Galante" as a "BRAND NAME", such as the one displayed on rumdog's bottle...

If you search rumdog's earlier post you will see the fine print on his bottle indicated in French, "made in Grande Anse by traditional methods", and the importer is a firm named Preiss, which is no longer listing that product.


Runner, an interesting speculation regarding the use of MG as a brand name, assuming your interpretation is correct. The French seem to sometimes create very practical, almost generic names for their business. For example the distillery on Marie Galante, "Sucrerie et rhumerie de Marie-Galante". Perhaps this label, "Rhum Agricole... Marie Galante" is generic in that fashion. Perhaps not. Perhaps the label is entirely generic as to the contents and location, and the name was neither registered or intended as a brand name. But your speculation is a worthy one. What's your reference on French law?

At Peters I found a number of labels similar to Dog's (listing "rhum agricole" and "Marie Galante" in a seemingly generic fashion). It would appear that such generic labels must be permitted. This one is also from the company "SOSUMAG" which was reported to have gone out of business in 1994, per Peter's Labels.

http://www.rum.cz/galery/cam/gp/anse/img/gp240.jpg

It seems "Sucrerie et rhumerie de Marie-Galante" and SOSUMAG are one and the same. In searching through a bunch of labels from the Guadeloupe region I found that it was pretty common for the type of rhum, say "rhum agricole" or "rhum vieux" and the location, say "Marie Galante" to be featured in very bold letters, with the distillery, company or bottler found in tiny print way below, or not at all. Apparently this is permitted and was a common practice.

Actually the source for the distillery I found ("Sucrerie et rhumerie de Marie-Galante") is also on the link you provided at the tourist board. It's in the section "addresses and locations". Search under localities for "Marie Galante" and page through, you'll find it, along with contact information.

I somehow missed the Preiss reference which you listed, thanks. Do you have a link? Ultimately I hope to find someone on or affiliated with MG who may be familiar with the label.

Michael, I agree with you, that without all of us actually traveling there (and I'd really love to) we're all just speculating. But it sure is fun...

[Rum Runner]

Bill, You are obviously having fun. And good for you.

You assume my statements as speculation. French laws regarding labelling of spirits continue to evolve. What may have been legal in 1994 may not be after 1996.

You seem to have a bit of time to google search.

For current French Regulations I suggest you search INAO which is the Governing body of French food, wine and spirits.

I am aware that Erstein took over from SOSUMAG.

I am aware that the link I provided also provides the info for the sugar factory/distillery on Marie Galante.


A google search of Preiss Imports shows the importer of Rumdog's bottle.

Enjoy you findings..I am off for a rum punch..and to another thread.

With friendship

[Bill]

Haven't posted here for a time, as I had a bunch of feelers out including contacting some locals living and working on Marie Galante. Actually on the phone with the importer (Preiss), and contacted the originator - which was Slaur in France.

After way too much investment in time here's the bottom line and a mini summary of the thread that ate Chicago...

Case #1: It's not real and/or it's not from Marie Galante. Differing posters speculated...

1. It doesn't look like labels from Marie Galante
2. Being bottled at 50% was suspect
3. The label appears to be a brand name.
4. There is a sugar refinery in Grande Anse on Marie Galante, but no distillery.
5. There is a distillery on Grande Anse but it produces molasses based rums only.

But most simply doubted it on it's face.

Case #2: It's real and from Marie Galante. I am convinced this is the correct conclusion.

1. A number of similar labels were found from MG and also from the rest of the Guadeloupe archipelago.
2. 50% was a pretty common published alcohol content.
3. Similar labels indicate that the label style (featuring "rhum agricole" and geographic location, here "Marie Galante"), and size were common to labels in this region and reasonably assumed to be legal at the time produced.
4. The refinery on Grand Anse was found to also house an active distillery.
5. That same distillery (on Grand Anse) was found to produce both rhum agricole and rhum industriel.

In addition, Preiss Imports was found to be a reliable importer of good but sometimes hard to find products. On my telephone call they named the originator (Slaur of France). Slaur purchases product in the archipelago and bottles it appropriately, in this case "Rhum Agricole" and "Marie Galante". The product did not sell well and it was d/c'd about five years ago.

I also thought it would be interesting to contact some bar and restaurant owners in MG just for the fun of it, see whether any of them might actually know the product. My guess is that Slaur bought this rhum agricole from the Grand Anse distillery and bottled it in France for sale there and elsewhere.

But as I see it, all the evidence favors its authenticity. It's also pretty clear you won't be seeing this rhum agricole anytime soon, a genuine collector's item, along with your genuine 3-D movie glasses...

Man, isn't it amazing where a rum and research obsession can lead you...whew!

[Mark]

Bill, I agree that when it comes to the distillers they do take great pride in their product and don't stand for too much fooling around within their own ranks.

However, when it comes to bottlers buying in bulk and then private labeling...Well, that's horse of a different colour. Often these private labels are being sold only in far flung markets, not on the local Islands. The locals may have no idea what is being sold in different countries with their Island name on it. Just as a recent example, There was a fairly expensive ($30) rum which had garnered some very positive attention from some reviewers in the USA...It was labelled "Martinique Agricole" with the sub-title "Appellation Rum Controlee". You might think it was produced on Martinique? Even had the stamp of approval from the French Government with that Appellation name?

It turns out it was "aged and bottled" in France, and the USA importer (though stating otherwise here on this forum) could not produce a single piece of appropriate paperwork from the bottler to back the claims of "Martinique Agricole" and it turns out that "Appellation Rum Controlee" does not even exist.

It's my understanding that this rum will no longer be seeing it's way onto shelves.

The labels you cited from Peter seem typical of bottlers labelling wordplay. The left hand one does not state made in Marie Galante..or even Guadeloupe, Though you might think it was. On the right hand label the juxtaposition of the word Guadeloupe on top and Marie Galante on the bottom with "Produit a " in the middle would lead one to think it was produced on Marie Galante, but that is not honestly clear to me.

Rumdog's bottle fine print stating distilled in Grande Anse is curious. While I accept your finding that the sugar refinery there has the word "Rhumerie" in it's title, I can find no reference to it being active as such on Marie Galante in recent times. I'm happy to be corrected here though. I can only find three active distilleries on Marie Galante.

My points are not meant to take you to task, but rather to suggest that the truth is only as good as the source...As a reporter you already know this. Personally, I would not use a bottler as a primary source of truthful information.

Hope you enjoyed that Ti Punch!

Salud!

Your understanding is incorrect as this product will be available for the forseeable future. Perhaps, the locals are savvy enough to know where exactly their rhums are going. Would you mind posting the label on this thread? The label clearly states produced and bottled in France. As for the rhums origins, the negociants as well as the bottler makes that claim. I'm confident you are happy to be corrected. One again you and others have labeled people dishonest dupes and worse, shame on you. Nobody need produce the paperwork for your approval. Others have stated this rhum tastes like cachaca. I doubt the reviewers veracity.

[rumdog007]

Mark, may I be so bold to ask if you are associated with the producers of CHAUFFE COEUR, it's importer, or its distribution? I ask because you seem to be quite defensive of the marque. Don't get me wrong, I like the product and must say that it does not taste anything like the Maria Gallante Gold Rum (Agricole). I am very happy whenever I drink it party2.gif . I sure hope that I can continue to find it on CA shelves. That said, I believe that this discussion has a lot to do with the very strict definition of what can bear the "agricole" appellation. Can you, no paperwork needed, tell me if CHAUFFE COEUR is an agricole as recognized by the governing authority/authorities. This is a question, from me, for my edification and is not related to the previous back-and-forth of the other thread. thankyou.gif

[Mark]

No, I am not associated with CC in any way shape or form.
Yes, CC rhum is an AOC rhum.

[rumdog007]

Thanks, cheers!

[Michael]

Your understanding is incorrect as this product will be available for the forseeable future. Perhaps, the locals are savvy enough to know where exactly their rhums are going. Would you mind posting the label on this thread? The label clearly states produced and bottled in France. As for the rhums origins, the negociants as well as the bottler makes that claim. I'm confident you are happy to be corrected. One again you and others have labeled people dishonest dupes and worse, shame on you. Nobody need produce the paperwork for your approval. Others have stated this rhum tastes like cachaca. I doubt the reviewers veracity.

Perhaps the importer or whoever created the label copy created unnecessary confusion by not showing the 'AOC' marque. 'Appellation Rhum Controllee' does not seem to be an actual Appellation. Printing a label with such apparently confusing or inaccurate information invites distrust. Perhaps they just need a good proofreader of English copy.

Aren't all Martinique agricole rhums supposed to display the 'AOC Martinique' marque? Will the label be changed to excise the confusing material and include the AOC indication?

Taste in rum is, to a great extent, an individual, subjective thing. If it is inconceivable to you that a reviewer could find the CC rum to taste like cachaca, then perhaps you should get out to more tastings and experience the spectra of opinion greeting many selections.