Best orange bitters?

[Tiare]

I cannot find orange bitters here but i want to try to find it from internet. So which orange bitters do you guys recommend?

I`m curious about Angosturas orange and Fees West Indian, how are they?

[ejellest]

Gary Regan's Orange Bitters No. 6 are very good, nice and bitter with a holiday spice (cardamom, etc) character.

The Fee's are only mildly bitter with little to no spice, but have a real orange intensity.

A lot of bars follow Pegu Club's (in New York City)example and blend the two for the best of both worlds.

I've heard the Angostura Orange are good, but haven't really had a chance to try them yet.

The Bitter Truth (http://the-bitter-truth.com/) also sells an Orange Bitters which are quite good. Actually, all their bitters are quite good.

~Erik

[Hank Koestner]

I like Regans Orange # 6, they have a mix of spice that is nice in a topper.

[Edward Hamilton]

I like Regans #6 as well, but there's something about Bittermens (http://bittermens.com/) that I really like. But then again, it depends on the cocktail.

[rumdog007]

I just tried the new Angostura Orange Bitters. Much hotter in the bitter category than Fee's and less spicy than Regan's #6. More of the traditional Angostura taste as a base, I would say. Afterwards, the orange hits you with a tad of complexity (clove?). Overall, another good bullet for my cocktail holster. Forrest of HiTimes reminded me that this may not be the same orange bitters which Europe got earlier this year. They had a hard time getting it through US regs regarding its "tastiness". So, it MAY be different.

[BarNowON]

Angostura Orange bitters - It tastes what it says on the bottle. Very orangy and well .... bitter.
It's not that complex at all if you compare with Regan's#6, and it is much more bitter that the other one on the market. I'd like to suggest to try to dash it gently, and just get use to the flavour & power.
I personnaly like to use it with an atomiser, it helps to control the amount that you want to use in your gass, sugar or cocktail, and it adds a bit of theatre to your technique behind the bar.

I'm also very intersted in what has been said with the arrival of the first AOB container in the US. Anyone willing to exchange a European bottle for a US one, just to double check the taste....:)

Cheers

Mick

[bunnyhugs]

I have Regans and Fees on hand and end up reaching for Regans over 90% of the time. Regans just seems a better all round product.

However, I think Fees works well is in drinks containing juices. If I use Fees I tend to use rather more than I do with Regans.

The Amsterdam Cocktail is one example of a drink where I think Fees works well.

Fees is practically potable. It isn't that much more bitter than some bitter aperitifs. So I think it works well in the small number of drinks that call for large measures of orange bitters. I remember a Calvados Cocktail (should be in CocktailDB) that calls for something like a 1/2 oz of orange bitters. Fees works well there.

[forrest]

Well being a bitter individual i'll throw my 2 cents in . . .

Fees=dry orange zest. . .concentrated
Angostura=sharp orange zest plus dark bark back notes (angostura, catechu, etc.)
Regans=orange zest, and sharp citrus focus spices--cardamon, coriander.. etc.

Of the 3 it is Regans that i prefer, though i use all 3 (thanks to RumDog007).

[Tiare]

I wish I could just walk into a store here and pick from an array of nice bitters on the shelf...( dreamin`...:rolleyes:) as it is now I have to do with Angostura (which is good) and my own, but I would like to try a whole bunch of others..

I also hope Bittermens will be released soon..want to try their Mole and Tikidrink bitters.

[Tiare]

Forrest of HiTimes reminded me that this may not be the same orange bitters which Europe got earlier this year. They had a hard time getting it through US regs regarding its "tastiness". So, it MAY be different.

Does that have to do with alcohol content? the alchol in the US bottles is 28% alc./vol. so what`s in the bottles for Europe?

[forrest]

Does that have to do with alcohol content? the alchol in the US bottles is 28% alc./vol. so what`s in the bottles for Europe?

No. It is an arcane tax law in America if the bitters 'taste good', it gets taxed more, so they were having approval issues because it 'tasted tasty', it was cleared up and now we have it.

[Tiare]

if the bitters 'taste good', it gets taxed more, so they were having approval issues because it 'tasted tasty'

So they determine how good things taste and tax thereafter?

[Michael]

I expect that the law is an attempt to differentiate potions that can be drunk alone to inebriating effect and those that must be a small part of a larger mixture to be drinkable at all.

[The Scribe]

Basically, the idea behind the law is what Michael said. Vanilla extract (or mint, or whatever) is not booze, it's an ingredient. Rum and whiskey, on the other hand, get you drunk, and thus are taxed as booze. It's referred to as potable alcohol versus non potable.

[forrest]

So they determine how good things taste and tax thereafter?
Michael and The Scribe are both correct.
To illustrate, i'll quote from Grossman's Guide to Wines, Beers, and Spirits, Seventh Edition, published 1983.Appendix R, page 593:
"Bitters of all kinds containing spirits:
Not fit for use as beverages -
Customs Duties(Proof Gallon)-.38
Internal Revenue taxes(Proof Gallon)- 0
Fit for use as beverages -
Customs Duties(Proof Gallon)-.50
Internal Revenue taxes(Proof Gallon)- 10.50 "

So taxes could seriously bite into the old profit margin-- if you get my drift.
This example/quote is from 1983, and i am sure taxes went up since then...

[BarNowON]

Originally Posted by forrest
if the bitters 'taste good', it gets taxed more, so they were having approval issues because it 'tasted tasty'

That's very intersting and weird at the same time.
Is it the same with everything else in the US?
AOB in europe is 28% abv as well.
I've never heard of this story that better your product is, more tax you'll have to pay.
Again, I'd like to exchange a bottle from the US with one from Europe (I've got cases here waiting at home)...
Lets do a comparaison taste and then we'll see.
I don't think that Angostura would have changed its recipe in order to save a couple of $.

Cheers

[forrest]

Originally Posted by forrest
if the bitters 'taste good', it gets taxed more, so they were having approval issues because it 'tasted tasty'
That's very intersting and weird at the same time.
Is it the same with everything else in the US?
AOB in europe is 28% abv as well.
I've never heard of this story that better your product is, more tax you'll have to pay.
Again, I'd like to exchange a bottle from the US with one from Europe (I've got cases here waiting at home)...
Lets do a comparaison taste and then we'll see.
I don't think that Angostura would have changed its recipe in order to save a couple of $.

That statement was an over simplification (with humor intended) that i assumed would be understood as such, please excuse my pedantry.
Seeing it was not as clearly understood, as i had hoped it would be, i posted an elucidation with quotes, from a respected source.

Now i have not suggested, nor would i, that anyone changed their recipe.
i do not think that anyone did.

These post's, and quotes originating from me, posted here by others, were intended to explain the delay in Angostura's Orange being released into the American market place.

My statement are not, were not, and will not be an indictment of their product-- which i think is great.

The tax code issues (and labeling issues) always hold up the release of products.

The question wasn't if the product was better or not, it was if the product was bitters or not.

Bitters easily fall into 2 categories:
1. Bitters you drink-- or
2. Bitters used for flavoring.

#1 gets, taxed more.
It doesn't have a thing to do with quality, it is about concentration.

#2 is a flavoring agent (not just for cocktails, try some Angostura in vegetable soup!!!!, or Peychaud's on ice cream!!! or Regans on lemon sorbet. . .)

Which is not to say that Angostura was called to question.
It is saying that as a product desiring to be released into a market place the burden of proof lay with the manufacturer, which in turn explains the delay, and demonstrates Angostura's compliance.

i hope this clears everything up.
i am sorry for the confusion.

[BarNowON]

thanks a lot for these precious info.

[ejellest]

It also has to do with how the product can be sold.

Because they are a flavoring agent, Non-Potable Bitters can be sold in grocery stores with no intervention of the liquor distribution chain or the taxes associated with alcoholic beverages. You, as a consumer, just pay sales tax (or not, depending on your state).

In the US, Potable Bitters must be sold through whatever sale and distribution channels the state you live in requires for alcoholic beverages. They must also go through the alcoholic beverage and label approval process with the TTB.

~Erik

[rumdog007]

I second Forrest's assessment of the current bitters discussion. The legal thought (in the US) goes back to the legal exclusion of "bitter"s" (non-potable Abbott's, etc.) from Prohibition's ban on alcholic potables. Bitters (non-potable) "slipped in" under the need for digestve aids under the banner of accepted medicinals. The argument presented in Washington at the onset of prohibition was that bitters could not be drunk in large enough quantities because they, well, tasted too bitter (or bad, in large quantities) to be drunk as a cocktail/spirit/intoxicant in their basic form. There were secondary thinking regarding whether a bitters could be successfully diluted! Anyway, a lot of this thought worked its way into the goverment's present stance and regulations. The shorthand, if you will, is that bitters get to be classified differently than potable spirits, wine, and beer/ale. So, to sum it up, tradition helped pave the way. Also, to further complicate matters, some states which have "dry counties" regard bitters as they would any other alcholic beverages and ban their sale. In most of these counties, non-potable bitters were once allowed for sale and only became contraband after many prohibition laws were replaced with "blue laws".party2.gif

[Tiare]

So its no wonder then that Bittermens have to wait so long to get their bitters out on the market..

Last thing i read from their website is: "May 21, 2008
We're now on our second round of reviews with the TTB in order to get certified for production"

[Paulipbartender]

I second Forrest's assessment of the current bitters discussion. The legal thought (in the US) goes back to the legal exclusion of "bitter"s" (non-potable Abbott's, etc.) from Prohibition's ban on alcholic potables. Bitters (non-potable) "slipped in" under the need for digestve aids under the banner of accepted medicinals. The argument presented in Washington at the onset of prohibition was that bitters could not be drunk in large enough quantities because they, well, tasted too bitter (or bad, in large quantities) to be drunk as a cocktail/spirit/intoxicant in their basic form. There were secondary thinking regarding whether a bitters could be successfully diluted! Anyway, a lot of this thought worked its way into the goverment's present stance and regulations. The shorthand, if you will, is that bitters get to be classified differently than potable spirits, wine, and beer/ale. So, to sum it up, tradition helped pave the way. Also, to further complicate matters, some states which have "dry counties" regard bitters as they would any other alcholic beverages and ban their sale. In most of these counties, non-potable bitters were once allowed for sale and only became contraband after many prohibition laws were replaced with "blue laws".party2.gif

Not all the bitters are undrinkable in large quantities though. The (French/Italian?) winner of the Angostura global cocktail competition served a drink that used a 35ml measure of the bitters......and it tastes very interesting

[Tiare]

The (French/Italian?) winner of the Angostura global cocktail competition served a drink that used a 35ml measure of the bitters......and it tastes very interesting

I`ve read so much about that drink! i would like to try it!

[Michael]

Not all the bitters are undrinkable in large quantities though. The (French/Italian?) winner of the Angostura global cocktail competition served a drink that used a 35ml measure of the bitters......and it tastes very interesting

Perhaps taste is not everything. Imbibing 35ml of herbal extract admixture one would imagine might not be the best thing for one's digestion or general health, particularly if said substance is usually used in dash quantities, not over an ounce in one cocktail.

Would it be inappropriate to conjecture that such a cocktail would need to include a large quantity of sweet elements to offset the preponderance of bitter? That sounds like another trial for the digestion, perhaps better avoided by the less hearty forum members.

[Paulipbartender]

It wasn't balanced with sweetness actually, and there's no reason you couldn't imbibe that amount.

Mickael Perron from Angostura was in the competition and he posts here from time to time. What was the recipe Mick?

[forrest]

Not all the bitters are undrinkable in large quantities though. The (French/Italian?) winner of the Angostura global cocktail competition served a drink that used a 35ml measure of the bitters......and it tastes very interesting

i'm sure it is a matter of intense obtusion/ preferentiallity that defines something as "drinkable/ undrinkable".

i, being a bitter individual, drink / taste these things all the time, and would also love, love love to try that cocktail.
if you find it please post!!

[rumdog007]

Not all the bitters are undrinkable in large quantities though. The (French/Italian?) winner of the Angostura global cocktail competition served a drink that used a 35ml measure of the bitters......and it tastes very interesting

Wow, I'd have to give that one a try. Please don't consider what I am saying about the legistlation to mean that the government has it completely correct in every instance. And I also know that there is probably some cult out there which drinks 250ml of Fee's and chases it with 100ml of Regan's #6 on a regular basis. But, that was the government's perception of Angostura when they deemed it non-potable and fit for a much lower FedTax.

[Tiare]

Bitters were first made to cure stomach disorders, so it wont do any harm to imbibe some. I drink the Swedish bitters sometimes even out of the bottle but mainly mixed in tea .A dash almost daily, its good.

[ejellest]

Not Mickael, but I can post the Angostura drink he's been popularizing:

Trinidad Especial by Valentino Bolognese - Italy

30 ml Angostura Aromatic Bitters
30 ml Orgeat Syrup
20 ml Fresh lime Juice
10 ml Pisco Mistral

Shake hard and long, and strain in a martini glass (or shooter glasses to share)

For those of us in the US, 30ml is about an ounce.

Angostura bitters are over 90 proof, so maybe sharing isn't a bad idea...

~Erik

[forrest]

Trinidad Especial by Valentino Bolognese - Italy

30 ml Angostura Aromatic Bitters
30 ml Orgeat Syrup
20 ml Fresh lime Juice
10 ml Pisco Mistral

Shake hard and long, and strain in a martini glass (or shooter glasses to share)
~Erik

Erik you rock!!

i know what i am having tonight!! (Must get limes...)

Michael-- Not balanced by sweetness?? 1 oz of orgeat.

[BarNowON]

hELLO, HELLO

Cheers for that drink. This cocktail was made by Valentino Bolegense in Bologna, italy (easy to remember:))
The recipe was correct.

The really interesting things here, is that myself and many colleagues have never saw anyone playing with Angostura as a main ingredient before (including books and real life).
So when Mr Bolognese started to dash out something like 23 dashes, I thought that i was going to die...

Also, It's very interesting because the US actually founded their law around Aromatic Bitters describing it as not being able to be drunk on its own....

The cocktail itself isn't about sweetness, and I've never said that.
It's about a real challenge for any bartender: Can you actually serve a cocktail containing 30 ml of Angostura Bitters, and not killing your guest?

I think that the answer is Yes now, and it should be well remebered for anyone who will say that you can't pour more than a few dashes out of this weird looking bottle.

Cheers to Mr Bolognese, and if you haven't got pisco, then any brandy would do the job, including Cognac.

Trinidad Especial
30 ml Angostura Bitters
30 ml Orgeat Syrup
20 ml Fresh Lime Juice
10 ml Brandy

Shake very hard and long, then fine strain in a martini (original drink) or split the pour into shot glasses and ebjoy.
Really, i think that this cocktail should be in every Bartenders' Book.

Mick

[Tiare]

Its a real interesting cocktail and here (http://www.winecountry.it/articles/trade-shows-and-events/1057)is a link to an article with a pic of Valentino Bolegense and the drink itself.

[BarNowON]

Sorry Tiare, but that one isn't the Trinidad Especial (it was his AOB cocktail in which one he used something like 10ml...).
I'll try to find the right one on the net, otherwise I've got my pics perso.

Mick

[Tiare]

Have they written the wrong thing under the picture?

They write: Valentino Bolognese preparing the Trinidad Especial cocktail at the "Mood Bar" in Paris

[ejellest]

Damn! That other one looks good too. And it has Rum!

Ri. Pa. Deuxième
10 ml. Angostura Orange Bitters, 10 ml. Tio Pepe, 15 ml. Bitter Martini, 15 ml. Martini Bianco, 20 ml. 3 years old Angostura Rum.

I don't think we get Bitter Martini here, though. What can I use instead?

~Erik

[Michael]

Not all the bitters are undrinkable in large quantities though. The (French/Italian?) winner of the Angostura global cocktail competition served a drink that used a 35ml measure of the bitters......and it tastes very interesting

BTW I believe that the quality which characterizes the two types of bitters is whether they can be drunk "straight", not diluted in a cocktail, no matter how strong the mix.

I don't want to dampen anyone's enjoyment, but our enthusiasm will be reserved for cocktails more palatable on first regard. For some reason this recipe recalls the stories of folks unable to afford a proper drink who have resorted to unconventional sources of ethanol.

[forrest]

I don't want to dampen anyone's enjoyment, but our enthusiasm will be reserved for cocktails more palatable on first regard. For some reason this recipe recalls the stories of folks unable to afford a proper drink who have resorted to unconventional sources of ethanol.

i was thinking something along those lines:
"i would love a cocktail, what do i have?' ' Angostura,
orgeat, a lime, and splash of pisco????' 'Damn, i need to
go shopping!!!!' "

You know what tho. . .

This drink is good.

i wouldn't call it great, but i am going to make another one.

i think i may add some cinnamon schnapps.

[BarNowON]

I very like it served as a desert to help the digestion.
At home, I shake a recipe, and I like it drizzled over some Vanilla ice cream balls that I serve in a martini glass.
One recipe should fix 4 or 5 deserts .
Some cinnamom grated on top to finish the job, a tea spoon, et voila...
It's a nice way to pimp your desert, to show your shakers, and to start a cocktail after party.
cheers.cheers.gif

[Tiare]

That desert idea isn`t bad.

[Paulipbartender]

Valentino Bolognese - Italy


That's a made up name....surely?

Interesting drink that. Not something I'd order or drink at home but fascinating to challenge one's perception of Angostura. It was only recently that there was a rumour in the UK bar industry that too much Angostura was a poison....which I stress isn't true

[Michael]

I very like it served as a desert to help the digestion.
At home, I shake a recipe, and I like it drizzled over some Vanilla ice cream balls that I serve in a martini glass.
One recipe should fix 4 or 5 deserts .
Some cinnamom grated on top to finish the job, a tea spoon, et voila...
It's a nice way to pimp your desert, to show your shakers, and to start a cocktail after party.
cheers.cheers.gif

A drink portion with a teaspoon and a half of Angostura bitters (1/4 of an ounce), especially over ice cream, begins to pique my interest and to quiet any trepidation over consuming the full drink.

[Tiare]

It piqued my interest too..

I made two Trinidad Especial cocktails and a Vanilla icecream desserts topped with the Trinidad Especial to go with it and then me and my friend had a good time!

This cocktail is actually tasting very nice and its not bitter, rather spicy with clove..

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3122/2615919361_69667c8790.jpg?v=0[/url]

[Rum Runner]

Great pic Tiare. Your Chef abilities are clear. Is that a garnish of Starfruit (Carombola in Spanish)?

[BarNowON]

Wonderful,
And you are still alive, I'm glad, otherwise I would have been in Big troubles ...you rock.gif

[Tiare]

Oh yes, i`m very much alive thank you! cheers.gif

But this amazes me..another person made this drink also today and wasn´t able to finish it..and had to drink several glasses of water to get the taste out...

I actually didn`t find the drink bitter..at all..so now i wonder..can that be because i`m a avid Campari drinker?

I found this drink clove-spicy rather than bitter, it would actually make a real nice drink for Christmas..

Who else find this drink bitter?

BTW: RumRunner, it is Carambola.

[Tiare]

I must just update because this drink continues to amaze me..

I had 2 friends trying it yesterday and one didn`t find it bitter but spicy and the other found it too bitter to drink...i myself find it very much on the clove side and quite nice and certainly interesting..

Conclusion, this is a very different drink..party2.gif

[ejellest]

A lot is made of so-called Super Tasters, but I think it is not so black and white.

There is a variety of taste sensitivities among people, and those for whom bitter is outside of their personal taste experience.

I know when I was growing up we ate very little bitter or spicy food.

It took me a while to teach myself to like beer because of the bitter flavors. But once I got that down, I was off and running, next stop happy chomping down dandelion greens.

But a lot of people just don't eat bitter food or drink as part of their flavor palate.

And, yeah, there are super tasters out there. People who are very sensitive to all flavors. This drink would be a complete nightmare for anyone who is a super taster.

~Erik

[Rum Runner]

BTW: RumRunner, it is Carambola.

I love it when someone from Sweden corrects my bad Spanish spelling!thankyou.gif

[Michael]

My point was simply that at times it might be important to consider effects of the particular ingredients, or the quantity thereof, in addition to taste.

[BarNowON]

My point was simply that at times it might be important to consider effects of the particular ingredients, or the quantity thereof, in addition to taste.

I think that's a wonderful quote.
.
I just would like to come back to the topic which was about orange bitters,
You can really achieved amazing flavour by playing with bitters, and the Trinidad Especial really push forward the limits of their power.
As a rum dedicated forum, and please tell me if I'm wrong, I don't think that It's rare to find some spiced rums in which one some bitters has been added...

But Back to orange bitters.
The best orange bitters is the one that will adapt the best to your creation, i think. The actual portfollio available in shops or on the net is mazing.
Some of my colleagues started to play and mix different brands of Orange Bitters years ago. They worked and focused on it like if it was some kind of mini cocktails.
Bitters have got amazing depth of flavours and great versatility. And when you mixed them together, you really can create some amazing backgroung of taste for your drinks.

For example, it's not rare to find a "Secret Bitters" on a cocktail menu, especially if the bar serves the House Old Fashoned .
If the Old Fashioned is very popular with the crowd...then ask for the recipe.
At the end, the secret is an house pre-made cocktail of bitters (orange only or more).
You can give it a try with a bit of AOB for the aroma and perfume + some Hope's or Luxardo for the sweetness and a bit of Regan or whatever you wish...a ll that in a tiny bottle.

Have some fun...drooling.gif

Mick

[Michael]

Thanks Mick for the perspective on orange bitters and the nice starting point for some interesting cocktail experimentation. :)

[Tiare]

I`m lucky, i have got a bottle of the Angostura orange bitters (thanks!) and i find these bitters to have a incredibly nice orangey nose and the taste is more bitter than the regular Angostura which as i said before i find more spicy than bitter really, but this one is bitter and orangey. Very nice bitters and i will start to experiment with them..that is going to be fun! if i find out some nice drinks i`ll post the result.

I`m thinking that maybe these bitters will be nice in Rum, Bourbon and Campari drinks.

[Tiare]

I keep on experimenting..here are 2 drinks i made with the AOB:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3176/2635852456_be8a4edd3b.jpg?v=0

Tribute: This is Appleton 12, Creme de Cacao, dash of Cocoa balsamic vinegar, dash of Angostura Orange Bitters.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/2635856898_56f99a0d1f.jpg?v=0

Light Summernight: Havana Club 3 anos,Havana Club blanco, Peach Brandy, Lime, Simple syrup, Honeymelon juice, Angostura Orange Bitters, Mango, Mint.

[BarNowON]

Just tried a cocktail yesterday, and thought that i could share it here.
I don't know if you've got some Drambuie and Stone's Ginger wine at home,but if the answer is "yes", then you should try that:

In a glass filled with ice pour 30 ml Drambuie, 20 ml Stone's Ginger wine and 10 ml Angostura Bitters (original). That's it, stir a bit with your finger, and let me know what you think.

Cheers
Mick

[RumBarPhilly]

Tiare, that Light Summernight is a sexy drink! So many ingredients that are either hard to come by or impossible to get just leaves me drooling!

[Tiare]

Adam, you can sub the Havana Club rums for say Appleton white, that rum would do well in this drink.The Honeymelon juice we get here is a brand called Pago: http://www.pago.cc/ (http://www.pago.cc/)They make natural fruit juices.

We can always make another swap..if you want any of the ingredients just PM me.cheers.gif

Mickael: What is Stone's Ginger wine?

[RobertBurr]

The Angostura Orange Bitters: fantastic.

I've begun experimenting with Angostura Orange Bitters with great success. Added two dashes to my Piranha Punch and loved it. A dash of OB, a small splash of cane syrup and Appleton Reserve on the rocks -- rocks! The testing continues...

[forrest]

Adam, you can sub the Havana Club rums for say Appleton white, that rum would do well in this drink.

Tiare have you ever had Matusalem Platino? or Angostura Aged White?

i think both of those would work well in place of the Havana Club 3 anos and HCB combo-- just a thought, more for Adam i guess- because you can get the Havana Club so why sub it out??

Mickael: What is Stone's Ginger wine?

Also i am not Mick, but here is a link:

http://www.stonesgingerwine.com/products/stones_original.shtml

i think this product is deeply underutilized in cocktails/ mixed drinks and now that i mention it, i realize i am out:(

[Tiare]

Thanks for the link to Stones Ginger wine, it sure looks like something i would like! thankyou.gif

As for subbing the HCB i`m sure Adam could use any of the (Appleton white, Matusalem Platino or Angostura Aged White) with good results.

[BarNowON]

I can see that you are all starting playing with the AOB...thanks, that's great feedbacks.
If i could share a tips or two, I find AOB amazing on the aroma, and quite bitter in taste compared to the other orange bitters.
If you've got the chance to visit car boot sales or may be ask your grandma, I love to play with a perfume atomizer bottle filled with AOB.
A couple of spray in your glass, or just over the drink really tease well all your senses.

For the Stones Ginger Wine, it was a very popular ingredient before the 70's. All the family of Mac cocktail (whisky mac, rum mac etc...used some).
Equal part, a bit more or less with you favourite rum will give your dram a softer taste (on the rocks).
Cheers

Mick

[Tiare]

If you've got the chance to visit car boot sales or may be ask your grandma, I love to play with a perfume atomizer bottle filled with AOB.
A couple of spray in your glass, or just over the drink really tease well all your senses.

Actually i also poured some in a plastic atomizer..not as nice as a nice old glass bottle but it sprays.

I also have got to the conclusion that its more bitter but also very aromatic, so just the right amount of it in a cocktail is amazing.

[forrest]

For the Stones Ginger Wine, it was a very popular ingredient before the 70's. All the family of Mac cocktail (whisky mac, rum mac etc...used some).Mick

Whisky Mac, i love it, a fantastic Oldy, from across the pond... but

Mick, you magnificent bastard--A Rum Mac... i never, and really i often-- so i. . .
YOU ROCK!!!

i am on my 5th Rum Mac w/ generous Splashes of bitters (at least a teaspoon, but no measuring-- not now, maybe later.) and truly, truly what a joy of a drink>>BarNowOn!

Mick i lift my drink to you in thanks!-f

[Bahamian]

Have a Rum Mac in front of me right now (1,5 oz 7year old Ole Nassau; 3/4 oz ginger wine, Peychaud's & Reganґs range bitters No. 6) - just right, just great!

By the way, and back to a subject mentioned before. There is some other nice drinks with more then a dash of bitters:

the Seelbach Cocktail:
3/4 oz bourbon
1/2 oz Cointreau
7 (!) dashes Peycheau
7 (!) dashes Angostura
top with about 4 oz champagne

(I love that variation of the Champagne Cocktail, but i cut down the bitters or just rinse the glas with that 14(!!) dashes and discard the rest)

or anothe one that Charles H. Baker Jr. lists in his Gentlemanґs Companion:

The Angostura Fizz
1 pony (1 oz) Angostura
1 tsp sugar or grenadine
juice of 1/2 lemon or 1 lime
1 tbsp thick cream
white of 1 egg

(he lists that under temperance delights ;-)

[rumdog007]

In 1972, while on leave from Vietnam, I enjoyed many Seelbach cocktails at the Seelbach Hotel in Louisville. This was many years before a big renovation and facelift for the hotel. At the time, the hotel was showing her age, but the drink was still a thing of pride for those behind the bar.:D

[Michael]

We enjoy the Seelbach cocktail as specified, but are still experimenting to find the optimal bourbon. The 14 dashes of bitters don't seem too much in this delicious potion. glass.gif

If memory serves, the formerly secret recipe of this cocktail was revealed to Gary and Mardee Regan, "New Classic Cocktails". The recipe, with short back story is included in Dr. Cocktail's "Vintage Spirits ..." book. That is likely the origin of the recipe above, as Dr. Cocktail changed the Regan's generic 'triple sec' to 'Cointreau'.

N.B. In the good Doctor's (and the Regan's) version the bourbon is 1 oz., not 3/4 oz. Perhaps this drink supports the inclusion of 14 dashes of bitters better with more bourbon.

We sometimes substitute Cava for the requisite Champagne, to good effect.

[forrest]

We sometimes substitute Cava for the requisite Champagne, to good effect.

Brilliant confession Michael, and i concur!

i am going to brazenly amplify that sentiment and say that i 'always' use cava (specifically Cristalino) in cocktails {when situations insist i of course defer to the moment, but my preference is the dry, full bodied, fruit front character of cava--not to mention the extremely good value... $6 -12 usually}.

Don't misunderstand, i am a huge fan of Champagne, it seems that 'the major' defining aspects of Champagne are lost in cocktails, and i find the contrariwise to be true of Cava.

[rumdog007]

We enjoy the Seelbach cocktail as specified, but are still experimenting to find the optimal bourbon. The 14 dashes of bitters don't seem too much in this delicious potion. glass.gif

If memory serves, the formerly secret recipe of this cocktail was revealed to Gary and Mardee Regan, "New Classic Cocktails". The recipe, with short back story is included in Dr. Cocktail's "Vintage Spirits ..." book. That is likely the origin of the recipe above, as Dr. Cocktail changed the Regan's generic 'triple sec' to 'Cointreau'.

N.B. In the good Doctor's (and the Regan's) version the bourbon is 1 oz., not 3/4 oz. Perhaps this drink supports the inclusion of 14 dashes of bitters better with more bourbon.

We sometimes substitute Cava for the requisite Champagne, to good effect.

Michael, this thread got me off the recliner and into my kitchen and a mixn'... I went with the Four Roses Small Batch Bourbon at about 1.25 oz and hit it hard with the 14 dashes, the Fee's Aromatic(7 dashes)and Peychaud(7, too). Too much bark! Next one, same measures, but the Fee's Barrel Aged Bitters. It's now, to my taste, perfect. I only had champagne, but, very good Moet and Chandon White Star. I'd like to try this with Angostura 1824 instead of bourbon... forrest, should I try the rum version?

[forrest]

forrest, should I try the rum version?

i think that would amazing!
i have found (through diligent experimentation) that rum 'usually' works as an excellent exchange in a Bourbon cocktail- with perhaps a minor adjustment in ratios.
i can think of no failures of this practice, at this time (though there most certainly must be a few.).

[The Scribe]

I am also a huge fan of Cava in place of Champagne. I find that the fruitier aspects of Cava tend to work more nicely in cocktails than the sharper, more acidic notes of the French offering.
Cheers. - S

[Edward Hamilton]

And I was silly enough to think that only a few people used cava which for me balances better in cocktails with more than a couple of ingredients. I've used Proseco in a few cocktails but like the cava market there are wide swings in quality and taste.

[Rum Runner]

I've used Proseco in a few cocktails but like the cava market there are wide swings in quality and taste.

Coming from the Treviso area of Veneto in Italy, Prosecco is a favourite here. It can run the range from dry to slightly sweet, and from slightly sparkling to full blown "spumante".

The flavour profile to me is a delicate fruitiness with a nutty background...And a freshness not found in most Spanish Cava. Find the youngest possible to drink and mix with.

[Bahamian]

found the seelbach recipe at jamie boudreauґs blog (http://spiritsandcocktails.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/kentucky-mixmobourbon/).

but gary regan also discibes it with 3/4 ounze bourbon:

garyґs recipe (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/07/28/WIGP0DU59R1.DTL&type=wine)

by the way: there is another recipe at jamieґs page with a full teaspoon of bitters - the ALABAZAM (http://spiritsandcocktails.wordpress.com/2008/09/16/alabazam/)


and for a rum fueled champagne cocktail I once invented the "caribbean orange sparkle" ;-) :

sugar-coat the inner side of the glas (optional), ad 3 dashes orange bitters, 1 oz pyrat XO, fill with champagne (in my case it's mostly cava - my wife is spanish), orange trist must.

not the biggest fan of pyrat XO as a sipper, but in a champagne cocktail its great - you can omit sugar and triple sec.

[Michael]

Gary & Mardee Regan's original disclosure of the recipe ("New Classic Cocktails") specified:

"1 ounce Old Forester bourbon"

while the version from "The Joy of Mixology" has:

"3/4 ounce bourbon"

The first version uses "5 ounces chilled Korbel Brut" while the second includes "4 ounces chilled brut champagne".

We like it better with 1 ounce, but it may be dependent on the strength and quality of bourbon. The 4 or 5 ounces of chilled bubbly tends to become "fill the flute with chilled champagne or cava" rather than a set measure. I'd suggest some careful experimentation, but this cocktail seems to have a bit of latitude to suit different tastes. Several of the permutations tried so far have been delicious. glass.gif

[Bahamian]

did it with the 100 proof knob creek and i was fine with the 3/4 oz.
but as you mentioned: the is latitude to suit ones taste!
and i am pretty sure there will come occasions to prefer 1,5 oz (and a little more of the bubbly as well ;-)

[Bahamian]

but back to the subject: the best orange bitters I had so far is "The Bitters Truth Orange Bitters" (and not only because I am german ;-)

its a little more on the orange side but not so pungent as the angostura.
maybe its what they try to find at pegu club where they mix feeґs and reganґs orange bitters... but then again: I think they have got TBT on the shelf, too.

[Michael]

Coincidentally we used Knob Creek several times in this cocktail, albeit with with a full 1 oz. each time. It was so good the first time that it was tried on several occasions. :D

We'll have to order some of the Bitter Truth line. The expense and necessity of ordering from Germany kept us from getting any to this point, but as eas pointed out in another thread (with reference to the Jerry Thomas bitters), LeNells in Brooklyn may stock them.

[The Scribe]

If the flute is sized properly (obviously you should be getting your Champagne flutes with cocktails in mind!), then "fill the flute" and "4-5 oz." should be the same thing. =)
Cheers. - S