AOC and what it means

[Edward Hamilton]

The Appelation d’Origine Contrôlée mark is unique to the rhum of Martinique and was adopted by the Martinique distillers in 1996 after many years of work to establish a meaningful way to promote what were agreed by the distillers to be best practices within their industry.

According to the French definition rhum agricole is alcohol made from freshly squeezed sugar cane juice distilled to not more than 75% abv. In order to be called rhum vieux, or old rum, it must be aged at least three years in barrels of less than 650 liter capacity.

At this time, only Martinique has an AOC mark and all rhum agricole from Martinique must bear this mark. Guadeloupe and other French islands such as Reunion, Guadeloupe and Marie Galante also make rhum agricole and although some of the rhum from these islands would qualify on most counts to be considered rhum agricole under the Martinique standards, it is not AOC Martinique rhum agricole.

One innovative bottler in France has begun bottling what he calls Martinique Rhum Agricole with an Appelation Rhum Contrôlée. I have only recently tasted this rhum and after spending more than 15 years enjoying the rhums of Martinique and Guadeloupe I can say without hesitation that it did not originate from any producer who has been making rhum agricole on Martinique in the last 15 years.

That producer also bottles a dark rum which is not labeled Rhum Vieux and does not appear to be aged in the French islands.

In the past three years a growing number of rum distillers have begun to call their product agricultural rum. This term is simply a translation of the words rhum agricole, and only one or two of these rums are actually made from sugar cane juice and none are distilled to less than 75% abv.

Among the French distillers rum made from molasses is called rhum industriel or rhum traditionnel. It has been suggested that this was another act of snobbery by the French to discredit other rum producers by calling their product simply industrial rum. However, it should be noted that only a few years ago Martinique produced almost equal amounts of rhum agricole and rhum industriel.

In the French islands you will never see the rhum industriel on a label, though all rum made from molasses is labeled rhum traditionnel.

For the consumer one of the big differences between rhum agricole and molasses-based rums is that in the French islands white is never aged while many white rum producing countries have regulations requiring white rum to be aged up to two years before being bottled. All of these rums are carbon filtered to remove the color gained during aging.

The following posts were moved to this thread after a previous member deleted all of his posts so you may notice some discontinuities of thought and reference. To further the goal of better understanding and appreciation of all sugar cane spirits through open, friendly discussion I have not edited other members posts.

[Michael]

It seems that Ed may have sources of information to which we are not all privy. The good Capn's posts with respect to the origin of Rhum Barbancourt have consistently ignored that possibility.

The agreement and AOC designation in Martinique seems more an attempt to ensure that the particular qualities of Martinique Rhum Agricole are preserved and not swept aside by profit seeking or misguided modernization efforts. In short, it seems intended to maintain diversity and to avoid loss of quality or character.

[angelsword]

Did anyone notice that one of the recent Ybor City medal winners in agricole rums was not from Martinique???

[Michael]

Congratulations Daniel.

We hope to have the opportunity to try Temptryst Rums soon.

[Edward Hamilton]

The agreement and AOC designation in Martinique seems more an attempt to ensure that the particular qualities of Martinique Rhum Agricole are preserved and not swept aside by profit seeking or misguided modernization efforts. In short, it seems intended to maintain diversity and to avoid loss of quality or character.

Thank you Michael for that observation. In effect anyone can call their rum agricole since that term isn't defined anywhere other than Martinique but in all of the French departments rhum agricole is accepted to be distilled from sugar cane juice to about 72% abv. Under the AOC regulations the type of cane, etc. is also defined.

Essentially, at this point in time I don't know why anyone would call their rum 'agricole', a French word, unless they thought it gave their spirit a better chance to be associated with what are generally known to be good spirits. The quality of rhum agricole varies widely as do rums made from molasses.

[Edward Hamilton]

Did anyone notice that one of the recent Ybor City medal winners in agricole rums was not from Martinique???

Is this rum made from fresh sugar cane juice and distilled to about 72% abv or is it possible that the brand name is simply agricole?

As I have posted elsewhere, rum blenders and bottlers can do pretty much what they want to outside the French islands where rhum agricole can only be made from fresh sugar cane juice and distilled to about 72%abv.

[Edward Hamilton]

Accordingly it is fair to say that, at least in Martinique, we are presented with very, very expensive rhums by regulation.

I disagree that it is fair to say that in Martinique we are presented with very, very expensive rhums by regulation.

Even in the US, a liter of La Favorite Blanc 100 proof rhum agricole from Martinique currently sells for about $30 which corresponds to a 750ml bottled at 80 proof costing about $18. Considering that this AOC Martinique rhum agricole can only be made a few months a year and Martinique labor is not cheap this rhum can hardly be called expensive. Though I expect this price to go up in light of the value of the euro compared to the yankee dollar.

There are other Martinique rhums which are much more expensive, some are worth the money, some aren't.

[angelsword]

Is this rum made from fresh sugar cane juice and distilled to about 72% abv or is it possible that the brand name is simply agricole?
Temptryst Texas Agricole Rum. Made from fresh cane juice, to about 70%.

[Edward Hamilton]

That sounds very interesting I look forward to tasting it. But you know I'm a tough judge.

[angelsword]

That sounds very interesting. I look forward to tasting it. But you know I'm a tough judge.
I must have finished my personal bottle before our visit in Orlando! Oh well, New Orleans is coming soon.

[Rum Runner]

Look I'm not against the AOC. If these spirits sold for $20 to $30 (reflecting their largely 3 star ratings), with an occasional superb "vintage" going for $50 or so, I'd be less critical. OTOH when a company like Barbancourt, operating under third world conditions consistently produces 4 and 5 star offerings across the board, with their top rated 5 star Five Star selling for $19, who's kidding who..."Rhum Agricole" in Martinique, at least the French AOC legal version, is no longer rhum as art but rather rhum by regulation - oppressively strict and designed to exclude the many agricultural rhums made artistically elsewhere.

I reject and renounce this artificial and legalistic marketing strategy. I reject the notion that tradition and common usage can be so easily erased. And I renounce, repeal and refuse to accept that rum or rhum by regulation will ever supplant rum as art.

I'm happy to hear that your quote above in blue (from a previous thread) is not an indication that you are against AOC Martinique.

I guess it boils down (no pun intended) to a couple of things for you.

Firstly, Dave Broom likes Barbancourt better than any other AOC Martinique he has tasted.
Secondly, Those little French b*stards on Martinique are charging WAY too much money for a product that Dave Broom does not rate as highly.

That Dave's palate (as a UK citizen) may be more attuned to Barbancourt than AOC Martinique is not unusual. That is not a fault in my opinion. Just a taste difference.
As for price, Ed has illuminated some of the reasons for the differences. Lets talk economy of scale.

In 1974, Barbancourt had a capacity to produce 500,000 US gallons of rum. If we presume the same capacity today, the vision of happy little Creoles dressed in brightly colored costumes driving their oxen carts to the "Chais" with a little French cigarette hanging off their lips is good reading indeed.

The idea of "High Art" being produced at 500,000 gallons per year might make even a Scotsman blush.

[Edward Hamilton]

The idea of of "High Art" being produced at 500,000 gallons per year might make even a Scotsman blush.

To put that in perspective, Neisson produced about 400,000 liters of rhum agricole at 50%abv, about 20% of the artisanal production at Barbancourt last year assuming the figure of 500,000 is gallons at 50% and not 100% alcohol.

[Hank Koestner]

Thank God I waited to put my 2 cents in, since those before me have said everything I wanted to say. I would have typed a book.
Babancourt 5 Star is one of my favorite rhums and barring any specific change in taste, it will always be in my top 10. But using it in price comparison to rhums from Martinique is a stretch.
I have much respect for Dave Broom, as an author and a spirits enthusiast. He has much more experience than I do tasting spirits. I just wonder if he did that tasting blind, or he new what he was tasting. We all have expectations and maybe a little bias, especially when we look at a label. If you do a tasting blind, you might be surprised at the outcome.
I am currently getting ready do do some blind tastings at home to see how it compares to what I thought when I knew what I was tasting. Just listening to one persons opinion is very limiting.

[Tiare]

Please keep us posted on the results of your blind tasting Hank!

[Edward Hamilton]

I am willing to bet a signed copy of my first book that Dave's tasting wasn't blind. When I first started drinking the French rhums in Guadeloupe, Marie Galante and Martinique I wasn't as impressed as I am now. Some of the agricole rhums aren't nearly as good or consistent as others. Over the last fifteen years, I can tell you that some have improved and some haven't.

The people of these islands will tell you that they've changed and which ones are their favorite this year, though geographic distance to the distillery is always worth a few points on any island.

I also like Barbancourt 5 star, Cruzan Estate Diamond and a host of other rums that aren't from the French islands. If I didn't like so many different rums I couldn't have spent the last fifteen years of my life researching this spirit, writing four books, numerous magazine articles and publishing this website.

[Rum Runner]

Saludos Ed! Saludos Hank!

[Edward Hamilton]

Maybe I can get the distiller or someone with intimate knowledge of Barbancourt to answer questions on this forum. I won't however rely on talking heads from marketing or import companies to respond to your questions.

[RumBarPhilly]

I need a machete to cut through this tension...

[Michael]

I need a machete to cut through this tension...

It was my impression that the most recent reply had effectively closed the matter. Perhaps that was naive, but aside from dead horse beating, what remains to be discussed?

[angelsword]

I don't believe that this is the "agree with Ed" or else forum. If we all agreed and had the same knowledge then what would be the point? I feel like we can all learn from the differing viewpoints. I certainly am. It may be my economic interest to agree with Capn Jimbo. After all, I did enter a rum in the Agricole section of the Ybor city competion. But I am also really listening to Ed's counter view. Both have VALID points. Would promotion on my part of a Texas Agricole Rum also promote the rums of Martinique? Of course! Would an agave spirit made in Texas be an imitation tequila?

[JMac]

I have to agree with Angelsword. I have tried both rums and I consider the rhum agricole from Martinique to be better IMO. However I also like the aged rums from Barbancourt for their distinct qualities. For me it boils down to what I like and don't like.

I like the AOC for the protection and rights/economic welfare it gives its particpants. As for Barbancourt, I have had troopmates who have served in Haiti as RCMP peacekeepers tell me stories about what happens when workers injure themselves with a machete cutting cane.

That aside I like both rhums for different reasons. Politics should be left out of this.

This is s a forum about rum and should be left as such. This is why I joined and why I read the posts is to learn about rum.

[Michael]

Angelsword seems to have misunderstood the intent of my previous post. I didn't mean to imply that the subject was closed, only that no new points seemed likely to be made.

I suspect most participants in this debate share a common love of Rhum Agricole from Martinique and the fine Rhums from Barbancourt, as well as many others. If we didn't share the Capn's concern for the rich diversity of Rum/Rhum, we wouldn't attend this site, nor have joined this thread.

The fact remains that neither raising the drama, nor increasing the length of one's posts adds a bit to their credibility. Although I would agree that politics should be left out of this excellent and tolerant forum, one exception would seem appropriate. When the "politics" bear directly on the production or quality of rum in a country, the subject may be difficult to avoid.

[JMac]

Very true Michael, politics should be left out of rum. This is a forum for discussing rum and that should be it. I despise politicians and politics but rum is a subject I love to discuss.

[Edward Hamilton]

I don't believe that this is the "agree with Ed" or else forum.
You are absolutely right. In the year that this forum has been online I have closed one thread and deleted at most two posts from contributing members because I felt they were inappropriate to this forum. Occasionally a new member will use his or her first post to post spam and that is always deleted, though that isn't as big of problem as I imagined it would be.

Would promotion on my part of a Texas Agricole Rum also promote the rums of Martinique? Of course! Would an agave spirit made in Texas be an imitation tequila?

A Texas Agricole Rum would promote the rums of Martinique about as much as a Texas agave spirit would promote tequila. The difference is that Martinique doesn't own the name Rhum Agricole but the tequila producers of Mexico do own, restrict and defend the word Tequila.

From my perspective if your Texas Agricole Rum is made from sugar cane juice and you're looking to differentiate yourself from the crowd it might be a lot more effective to use something like Sugar Cane Juice Rum, especially considering that Agricole is a French word that isn't in common use in the Great State of Texas.

[Michael]

At what point are the distillers on Guadeloupe in the AOC process? What effect is their agreement likely to have on the supply or quality of the rum? What are the other French departments which produce Rhum Agricole?

[Rum Runner]

At what point are the distillers on Guadeloupe in the AOC process? What effect is their agreement likely to have on the supply or quality of the rum? What are the other French departments which produce Rhum Agricole?

Currently Martinique is, well, unique in holding an AOC for Rhum Agricole production.

Ed may have some insight on where Guadeloupe is in the process of obtaining AOC.

[JMac]

Does this mean Guadeloupe will get their own separate AOC label or join with Martinique in theirs?

The rum producers of the FWI could just come under one AOC.

[Rum Runner]

Does this mean Guadeloupe will get their own separate AOC label or join with Martinique in theirs?

The rum producers of the FWI could just come under one AOC.

It's my understanding that Guadeloupe is somewhere in the process of lobbying for it's own AOC.

A Rhum Agricole produced elsewhere in the FWI would not be allowed the term AOC Martinique.

[Edward Hamilton]

It's my understanding that Guadeloupe is somewhere in the process of lobbying for it's own AOC.

A Rhum Agricole produced elsewhere in the FWI would not be allowed the term AOC Martinique.

Correct, rhum agricole from Guadeloupe would be called Rhum Agricole Guadeloupe or Guadeloupe Rhum Agricole.

[Michael]

One person's "shoot-from-the-hip flippancy" is another's incisive commentary. Just because one refrains from a thorough deconstruction of your circular, self-serving and logic-free postings doesn't imply a lack of insight on the part of the one responding.

Feeling compelled to go well out of your way to debunk 'one myth' ... 'that "Rhum Agricole AOC Martinique" as established by French regulation provides the working definition of what is and what is not "rhum agricole" elsewhere', which to my mind was never seriously proposed by anyone except you, and apparently Ian Williams, strains credulity, does it not? The little tempest which resulted apparently required you to delete your precious, but grievously underappreciated postings, lest the untutored masses be privy to such distilled wisdom. To some of us, your actions appeared more akin to the child who takes his football home because the others won't agree to his rules.

To my mind, you fail to distinguish the discretion required of one given access to non-public information, without which such information would likely not be forthcoming, from the sort of bluffing on the basis of unverifiable rumor which you imply is the source of the statements with respect to Barbancourt's practices.

One of the qualities which I valued as a reader of this forum before joining was the tolerant and easy-going atmosphere. After meeting Ed a couple of months ago, it was apparent that the site is a reflection of the man's refreshing attitude. For some of us "shooting from the hip" may indicate candor, rather than flippancy. It all depends on the credibility of the speaker.

On the other hand you seem to value fora in which you can "strictly disallow" that which doesn't meet your standards. I'm sure that it is grand being you, but I prefer hob-nobbing with the hoi polloi. Chacun a son gout, as the French say.

[Hank Koestner]

My obvious lack of experience as a rum researcher and consumer, and being a member of the primate family prohibits me from posting a reply, so I am going to go scratch myself and have a Ti Punch.

[Mark]

One innovative bottler in France has begun bottling what he calls Martinique Rhum Agricole with an Appelation Rhum Contrфlйe. I have only recently tasted this rhum and after spending more than 15 years enjoying the rhums of Martinique and Guadeloupe I can say without hesitation that it did not originate from any producer who has been making rhum agricole on Martinique in the last 15 years.

So Ed,
Did you enjoy this innovative bottlers Rhum? Let's assume, for arguments sake, this rhum's origin is somewhere on the planet with the exception of Martinique. Would you recommend it to a friend as a fine tipple?

[Edward Hamilton]

In my opinion it tasted more like cachaca than rhum agricole. The AOC from Martinique is working to prohibit further imports of that product so if you like it buy it up as it won't be on the shelves too long.

[Mark]

Thanks for the heads up!

[Michael]

We did a comparative tasting of Ti Punch made with La Favorite Blanc and "Chauffe-Coeur" Blanc recently. The Ti Punch with the Chauffe Coeur had comparatively little flavor and suffered greatly in comparison to the delicious La Favorite drink.

We've tried several other rums in Ti Punch or Ti Punch like cocktails. All three La Favorite kinds (we have no access to "La Filbuste"), and the Neisson Blanc (we need ESB and Reserve Speciale) made fine drinks, as did Barbancourt Five Star.

[Mark]

Neisson Blanc & La Favorite Ambre are two of the finest spirits that there can be. Comparing another rhum to them, especially in a Ti punch is a stretch. Try the cc blanc as follows:
cc blanc 1 3/4 oz
orange curacao (Marie Brizard) 2 dashes
dry vermouth (Noilly Prat) 1/2 oz
pomegranate syrup (grenadine) 1 dash
lemon twist & garnish

I believe in this cocktail the lower key, less intense flavor profile of cc blanc will give you a more appealing and satisfying drink.

Try the cc brun in a copita.

Many thanks for giving cc a whirl!