Agricole definition

[Paulipbartender]

We've never had this verified and I wanted to run it by you MORummers. I understood that agricole was supposed to be distilled to no more that 74%, presumably as part of Martinique's AOC. Can anyone verify this? Is there a reason you wouldn't distil from sugar cane juice higher than this apart from the obvious?

[Rum Runner]

The INAO (http://www.inao.gouv.fr/public/home.php?pageFromIndex=produits/index.php~mnu=145) , which governs AOC shows that AOC Martinique Rhum Agricole is to be distilled to no more than 140 proof or 70 percent pure alcohol....If my French is correct.

Perform an Appellation search in the link above for Rhum and Martinique and you will eventually come to a page showing the complete listing of rules for the AOC.

[Mr Fjeld]

According to Dave Broom's RUM it has to be of no less than 65% and no higher than 75% ABV.

[Rum Runner]

A bit of further digging into the typically user unfriendly (as an English speaker) INAO website revealed this to me, which jibes with Mr Fjeld's reference to Dave's book.

Art. 10. - Produit brut :

Les rhums produits doivent prйsenter а la sortie du rйcepteur journalier et а la tempйrature de 20° C un titre alcoomйtrique volumique compris entre :

- minimum : 65 p. 100 vol. ;

- maximum : 75 p. 100 vol.,

et dans tous les cas, ils doivent prйsenter au minimum une teneur en йlйments volatils autres que les alcools mйthylique et йthylique de 225 grammes par hectolitre d'alcool pur.

En cours de campagne de distillation, chaque distillerie doit faire procйder а des analyses de sa production par un laboratoire agrйй par les ministres concernйs, aprиs avis de l'Institut national des appellations d'origine.

La frйquence des analyses doit кtre au moins hebdomadaire.

[Rum Runner]

To comment on Paul's question as to whether there is a reason to not distill fresh cane juice to a higher or lower degree, I see none other than the obvious in Martinique's case.

[Tiare]

Perform an Appellation search in the link above for Rhum and Martinique and you will eventually come to a page showing the complete listing of rules for the AOC.

In typical French manner (pardon la France..) its not so easy to find this text..

Look for: EXIGENCES NATIONALES
Texte(s) : AOC Martinique (version consolidée du 12/02/2002)

[Rum Runner]

Indeed Tiare...It's not easy to uncover the rules of AOC!...Thank you for helping to illuminate!

[Edward Hamilton]

Thank you for sorting this out. I thought I'd go crosseyed trying to figure out the French search engine, which confirms what I've been told by the distillers that AOC rhum agricole can't be distilled to more than 75% abv though most distillers work to distill their rhum to 72% abv. in order to capture as much of the flavor of the cane as possible.

[Paulipbartender]

Thanks you guys and girl. I've been quoting the 74% abv mark for a while during our training and I'd never actually had it verified anywhere.

You are all a very wonderful help

[RumBarPhilly]

I suppose that could be one origin of the American stereotype of "The Snobbish French".

I never thought about that though... every other rum is called Industrial rum...

[Mattia Volontи]

Unfortunately many people, who don't know nothing about rum, appears lobotomized by this marketing strategy called "AOC Martinique Agricole"...and now (in Italy) agricole rum seems to be better than rum from molasses. Or simply all the good rum seems to be Agricole rum.


People who talk about agricole, but never have tried one says:
1) Rhum agricole are better, they are more expensive than others!
2) Rhum agricole is more traditional, not artificially caramelized like industrial rum.
3) I drink only Rhum Agricole, I like Zacapa (many times called zapata, cazapa, pazata)

...and when you serve them an Agricole (maybe Blanc:D), says:
THAT'S NO RUM!, give me a Rum!

[KINGSTON]

I can't tell you how many people I have meet latley who say, "I like Rhum Agricole, it's better than plain old rum". I ask them what brand is their favorite. They can never seem to name more than one. Rhum Agricole seems to be becoming the "Paris Hilton" of the rum world.

Give me rum or give me death!

[Rum Runner]

OK, it's time to play!

So whatever happened to all the agricultural rhum produced for over a century in the rest of the West Indies (and in Martinique as well)? Ian Williams (author of "Rum") says it best: "In a stroke of snobbery they have converted every other rum in the world to mere 'industrial' alcohol".

"Rhum Agricole" in Martinique, at least the French AOC legal version, is no longer rhum as art but rather rhum by regulation - oppressively strict and designed to exclude the many agricultural rhums made artistically elsewhere.

I reject and renounce this artificial and legalistic marketing strategy. I reject the notion that tradition and common usage can be so easily erased. And I renounce, repeal and refuse to accept that rum or rhum by regulation will ever supplant rum as art.

YMMV

Ok Cappy...I'll mark you as "undecided".:rolleyes:

Just a few thoughts here...

The French government did not stroll into Martinique one day and impose AOC. Rather a group of local producers lobbied long and bitterly hard to obtain AOC status for their product from the INAO. If the producers end game was simply "marketing strategy", it seems they could have spent their time and money much more effectively.

AOC is based on geographical location, supported by raw material, production technique, and ageing that reflects that location. The INAO has other classifications of quality that French rum producers could lobby for, If they wish.

Moet-Chandon (a French company) is producing a rum from (ahem) fresh cane juice in Trinidad...They don't seem daunted by not being able to use the term AOC Martinique Rhum Agricole.

Countries other than France can produce (and name) product however they want (within their legal laws)...Just like you bloody yanks have been doing..Ever seen California Burgundy, Chablis, Champagne, Chianti?

Are there loopholes in INAO regulations? Yes. Are there loopholes in the USA tax laws? Yes, I take advantage when I can..I do not suggest that Martinique does so in it's production of AOC.

As to what happened to the "other Agricoles" produced in the West Indies? I suggest that the reasons for that are market and profit driven..as well as a loss of raw material.

Lastly...I think Rum as art is simply rubbish. Distilling and ageing spirits (and winemaking) is a High Craft..To try to elevate such to an art is indeed pompous ...And leaves you looking a bit "French" to me...

We all have different takes..and tastes...Vive la Difference.

[Edward Hamilton]

I'm on my way to another airport but will post some comments on this subject this afternoon.

[Edward Hamilton]

OK, it's time to play!

The rhums of Martinique proudly display the A.O.C. (Appellation d’Origine Contrôlée ) label. The label is printed in the size, typestyle and position required by the national committee of the A.O.C. As mentioned before this roughly translates into "spirits of controlled origin". The term was invented and established in 1996 by France. The subject at hand...

"AOC: A long needed designation, or a marketing ploy designed to capture a term of art?"

Let's start by reviewing some of the regulations - and trust me, this is the short version!



I guess you need written permission of the national committee to pee during business hours, using only the right hand, for not more than 60 seconds and shaken, not stirred after.

No you don't need permission to pee anyway you want to but if you're going to make rhum on Martinique and call your rhum Martinique Rhum Agricole you need to abide by the rules which were adopted by all of the rhum agricole producing distillers at the time of implementation. These rules were adopted in the early 90s but didn't take full effect until 1997.

Furthermore - and like all attempts to legislate - the regs are full of loopholes. What exactly constitutes "fresh" cane juice? Since water can be added, can it also be removed? Is the removal of a bit of water (to prevent premature fermentation, a thin "semisyrup") a violation? Rum from full blown (thick) sugar syrup or molasses is not permitted, but only if resulting "from the manufacture of cane sugar" - does removal of a bit of water, not related to sugar manufacture, count?

Spare me.

Actually fresh is defined in other documents just as it is in many other countries including the US. Fresh: not processed, frozen or cooked. And so it follows that removing water is not acceptable.



Amazing. The beauty of rum has always been its amazing diversity. Rum making was and is an art, made for over 300 years based on the most minimal of definitions, to wit "...a spirit distilled from sugarcane juice, sugarcane molasses or the refuse of the sugarcane at a strength not exceeding 150% proof" (Jamaica, 1941). Historically the major division was made by the French who designated rum made from sugarcane juice as "agricultural" and that from molasses as "industrial".

And that's the way it was until 1996.

So whatever happened to all the agricultural rhum produced for over a century in the rest of the West Indies (and in Martinique as well)? Ian Williams (author of "Rum") says it best: "In a stroke of snobbery they have converted every other rum in the world to mere 'industrial' alcohol".


Ian knows better than that, but it does make a good quote. In fifteen years of serious research I have encountered only a couple of distillers that make rum from fresh sugar cane juice and neither had more than a small production capacity.

Rum has almost always been made in the West Indies from molasses for economic reasons. Sugar, which continues to be subsidized and regulated by the US, the UK and the EU, is the main profit stream for sugar cane growers. Alcohol was made from sugar cane juice for explosive manufacture during a few war years, but I have yet to find any evidence to support the idea that rum was made for over a century from sugar cane juice by more than a few distillers outside the French islands on any but a small or temporary basis.

From an economic viewpoint, in order to make rum from fresh sugar cane juice, you can only really make rum less than half the year when the sugar content is high enough to support fermentation. The additional cost of increasing fermentation capacity and distilling capacity while loosing the profit from subsidized sugar just doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you are selling the alcohol for significantly more than other molasses based spirits.

What is less known is that in 1997 Martinique distillers produced almost equal amounts of rhum agricole and rhum traditionnel, as they call molasses-based spirits and because of the AOC regulations the consumer was finally able to easily tell the difference. I have some old rhum labels that call the contents rhum agricole and rhum traditionnel, which is impossible, but without regulations consumers were at a complete loss and left to the mercy of marketers.

At that time Martinique rhum was consumed primarily in Martinique and France, in fact, until recently, there was a quota on the amount of Martinique rhum which could be exported to France.


"Rhum Agricole" in Martinique, at least the French AOC legal version, is no longer rhum as art but rather rhum by regulation - oppressively strict and designed to exclude the many agricultural rhums made artistically elsewhere.

To my knowledge not one rum distiller was excluded by the Martinique AOC rules, but more on that later.

I reject and renounce this artificial and legalistic marketing strategy. I reject the notion that tradition and common usage can be so easily erased. And I renounce, repeal and refuse to accept that rum or rhum by regulation will ever supplant rum as art.

YMMV

Oh contrare, my rum swilling friends. The Martinique AOC regulations were adopted just as Puerto Rico, Jamaica, Venezuela and other rum producing countries adopted regulations for their sugar cane spirits - to improve the quality and value of their products. Without the AOC, spirit producers could simply call their rum Martinique Rhum Agricole and no one would be the wiser.

There are a few distillers calling their product agricultural rum but the truth is that their rum is made from sugar cane syrup and/or molasses and they don't understand the French term agricole, or its implications to the distiller.

In the French islands, sugar cane production is subsidized and not just sugar production, otherwise it would be too expensive to make the rhum agricole that some of us enjoy and understand.

Like so many other things in business, marketers are responsible for stretching the truth so without regulations, adopted by the industry, consumers are essentially clueless about the origin of the product.

Isn't standardization (regulation of the industry) what you wrote about when you posted this treatise on A Case for Reference Standards (http://www.ministryofrum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5561)?

[Hank Koestner]

In every aspect of wine and spirit consumption, there will be those who will try to be upscale and trendy by making certain assumptions and statements without having really researched the comments they make. So, some will approach Agricole in this way.
The designation of AOC is nothing but a set of standards that Martinique distillers use to make Agricole. I assure you that these distillers take pride in every batch of rhum they make, and would not go through all the trouble for this designation for a marketing ploy.
As a consumer, I am glad this is in place, because I know what I am getting when I open a bottle of Agricole. All agricoles are not created equal, but the standards are the same on the Island of Martinique. On Guadeloupe, there is not an AOC, but the distillers there take pride in the rum they make. The French have a history of taking pride in all the wine and spirits they produce.
As far as Ian's comment, the French and English have a long history of poking each other in the ribs. Enough said.
In the prior post, Ed made many of the points that I agree with, and said it better than I ever could.
I have over 110 bottles of rum, and 21 of those are Agricole. It is one of my favorites, but do I have less respect for the Mount Gay XO, Appleton's and all the others on my shelf? Absolutely not. I enjoy every one, and the differences between them is what I enjoy the most. Agricole is just another type of rum. There were aguments made on other forums for categories and reference standards. Would this not fit the bill?
If you do not like Agricole, don't drink it. But that is no reason to create controversy, where there isn't any. Myself, I am going to make a Ti Punch.............

[Mattia Volontи]

As a consumer, I am glad this is in place, because I know what I am getting when I open a bottle of Agricole.

I totally agree.
The main lack of rum industry are the unreliable information, that constrain rum as second-level beverage.


All agricoles are not created equal, but the standards are the same on the Island of Martinique. On Guadeloupe, there is not an AOC, but the distillers there take pride in the rum they make. The French have a history of taking pride in all the wine and spirits they produce.


In the history, French have a talent in a make very good products through standardization. Unfortunately the standardization have been affected the diversification...
About wines, for example, there are a standard for every region, in order to create a precise product with high quality. That's good for quality, and it's good for products recognition.

But what about a producer that want to uses different techniques? That want to create a product that taste different from his regional brothers?
He can, but if doesn't respect the regional standard, he will not have the "standardized product label", and that means less subsidies from government!

[Mattia Volontи]

For who are interested, I've attached the AOC Martinique rules in .pdf file, it comes from the INAO website named some post before

[RumBarPhilly]

A good point was brought up, that rum might not have the appeal that scotches have due to their unreliability in the truth.

This takes me back to the idea of standardizing the industry. Creating a set of standards to attain the true definition of rum (other than "Must be a distilled spirit with a base of a sugar cane product")

But unfortunately, as we all now, there is such deep rooted history involved with every country and their rums, that to create a standard for rums, would be merely impossible.

I suppose this is why we often refer to rums by their country of origin (i.e. Jamaican Rums, Cuban Rums, etc) whereas vodkas are never referred by their country of origin. I cant remember the last time somebody referred to Swedish Vodkas or Dutch Vodkas or American Vodkas...

Perhaps one idea would be to have every rum producing nation create a written code of standards for her own country, much like Martinique. Some fool-proof way to prevent fraudulent claims of age claims, what raw product is used, batching claims, etc.

[Rum Runner]

I
But what about a producer that want to use different techniques? That want to create a product that taste different from his regional brothers?
He can, but if don't respect the regional standard, he will not have the "standardised product label", and that means less subsidies from government!

I do not see Government Standardisations as a hindrance to diversity.
In fact I think one could argue that France's AOC, and Italy's DOC have helped to MAINTAIN a diversity of spirits and wine.

France, Italy, Germany, and Spain ( no particular order there) amongst other countries continue to produce spirits and wines across a wide spectrum of Geography and Tradition. This is enhanced by the local Government Regulations.


A producer can go "outside" the regulations...And they have done so...Just as an example Mattia, The Tuscan wine "Sassicaia" ..Which is selling for a very high price around the world.

Are producers with a wish to produce something different outside of the Government Regulations in their local area at a loss of subsidies?
YES, But that is the path they choose.

[Hank Koestner]

The great thing about rum is the diversity. There are so many from so many different countries and distillers. That is why I look at agricole as being a certain type of rum, and the standards make it the product that it is. And, what is interesting, each of the rhums from Martinique have thier own unique flavor profile, which shows some diversity within the standards.

[Edward Hamilton]

A good point was brought up, that rum might not have the appeal that scotches have due to their unreliability in the truth.


The scotch industry has had its share of trials and tribulations concerning coloring, blending, raw materials, aging and labeling. And those trials continue as scotch is exported around the world.


This takes me back to the idea of standardizing the industry. Creating a set of standards to attain the true definition of rum (other than "Must be a distilled spirit with a base of a sugar cane product")

But unfortunately, as we all now, there is such deep rooted history involved with every country and their rums, that to create a standard for rums, would be merely impossible.

I suppose this is why we often refer to rums by their country of origin (i.e. Jamaican Rums, Cuban Rums, etc) whereas vodkas are never referred by their country of origin. I cant remember the last time somebody referred to Swedish Vodkas or Dutch Vodkas or American Vodkas...


It should be appreciated that the Martinique distillers worked on the rules for their appellation for more than two decades. And, in this case all of the distillers knew each other, had a common interest, spoke the same language and since they all lived on the same island it was easy for them to meet and discuss their ideas.

In the case of the broader rum industry, many of the distillers have not met each other, most see each other as competitors as opposed to sharing a common interest in raising the awareness of the category, there is no common language other than English which many don't speak fluently and to meet and discuss anything would take weeks of planning and organizing.\

As long as distillers see each other as competitors there will be little common ground. In the meantime, the current definition of rum serves everyone equally, though there are differences in the American and EU definition of our favorite spirit.

In the meantime, the internet is providing a very effective platform for marketing and debunking marketing claims which are less than honest, which in effect will provide the greatest degree of regulation. The problems in the cognac, scotch and other distilled spirits industries has largely been resolved only after communication improved between the producers and consumers. Certainly communication is improving faster today than anytime in the history of rum.

I have a couple of changes in the last year in marketing campaigns which were less than forthright as a result of this forum. Hopefully the coming years will provide the consumer more and better information. Considering the number of people who are reading this post, I would be reluctant to go too far in making false and devious claims in the rum industry, the track record for truth is pretty good and improving.

[Milicent]

Great thread. It has been informative to me since I am still learning about agricoles. For whatever reason, the topic of agricoles seems to bring out strong thoughts, opinions, and emotions. Credit to everyone for keeping this conversation friendly. This is just one more reason why this forum is so great.

[Rum Runner]

Curiously the de facto standards you arrive at are based on geography...Just like France's AOC, Italy's DOC, and Germany's Qmp. These countries codified local taste, popular usage, preferences , and tradition in conjunction with the producers..By law.

Quality is not stifled..But rather defined.

As for the price? We all get a chance to "vote" with our pocketbook.


Great question, but not at all. My hypothesis and goals were simply to recognize de facto standards established by popular usage and preferences, rather than to establish and impose artificial de jure standards enforced by law as done by the French.

A bit different, wouldn't you say?

YMMV, but when regulations limit the type of cane, size of acreage, width of crushing rollers, genus of yeast, temperature, pH, BRIX, size of tank, specifying the construction, height, number of plates, and material of the still, exit temperature and percentage of volatile elements, time and material of aging, ad infinitum...

... I can help but believe the art (or craft as some may prefer) is inhibited. There is little room for error, for experimentation, for deviation, for useful alteration, correction or out of the box improvement. Does such stifling restriction improve the quality? I think not. But it sure increases the prices...

[Roberto]

A producer can go "outside" the regulations...And they have done so...Just as an example Mattia, The Tuscan wine "Sassicaia" ..Which is selling for a very high price around the world.

Sassicaia isn't a DOC wine, but it's an IGT (typical geographic indication), and can be produced only in Toscana, with a precise regulation. However the success of sassicaia is due more to commercial politics that to its real quality.

[Rum Runner]

Sassicaia isn't a DOC wine, but it's an IGT (typical geographic indication), and can be produced only in Toscana, with a precise regulation. However the success of sassicaia is due more to commercial politics that to its real quality.

I am aware that Sassicaia is not DOC. My point was to illustrate that one could produce an individual product outside of DOC regulation (while located inside a DOC zone) and find commercial success.

[Rum Runner]

Great discussion among friends...

Let's first define agricultural rum, aka rum agricole (Fr), with rum agricole AOC Martinique as a subset.

The French Indies include: Haiti, Guadeloupe, Marie Galante, Reunion and Martinique. Other agriculturals are made in Trinidad and Panama..

As all wine enthusiasts know, "terroir" is defined as the influence of environmental factors (such as climate, microclimate, atmosphere, subsoil, soil variety and topography) on the grape and wine of a particular locale. While terroir’s effect on wine is pretty much accepted, its effect on rum is largely rejected. What the French are attempting to sell us is the notion that the conditions in Martinique are so unique, so identifiable and so influential that "rhum agricole" from anywhere else constitutes a fraud.
Au contraire! It does not, never did and never will.

The nutty notion of "terroir" has been hotly dismissed by many rum experts:

The experts agree that the influence of "terroir", if any, is minor, regional and related to the production of rum from cane juice. Any localization to Martinique is presumptuous. A real expert can taste a grape and identify its "terroir", something nigh to impossible regarding a piece of sugarcane. To further stricture production via inane regulation of even the most miniscule factors in no real way enhances any possible influence of terroir. Rather, it simply tends to homogenize the process, leaving little room for individuation short of relatively limited tweaking. Have no doubt, the AOC endeavor is exactly that - an endeavor to exclude other producers of agricultural rum, to create an "exclusive" market, and to coopt the term "rhum agricole" for their own. Pooh!

One important exception is Barbancourt in Haiti, where agricultural rum from cane juice is virtually handmade using time consuming techniques and free of the oppression of the AOC. The result: exquisite, world class, affordable rhum agricoles of relatively great consistency and uniformly top ratings and reviews. Holy terroir Batman!

As so well said by our own Mr. Hamilton when you buy a very expensive AOC product you may end up with something heavenly, or just a very expensive souvenir. Considering the price, well...

In closing, forgive me but "La reine ne porte aucun vêtements!"

Haitians may not agree with you that they are part of the French Indies, since they gained independence from France in 1804.

The influence of terroir (literally soil) has been largely downplayed by wine experts as well, as other factors mentioned play a much greater role in the end product.

That you see AOC Martinique as a "put down" of other rums is curious to me.

The endeavour was to codify a unique product based on geography, production, and quality within a standing framework endorsed by Government approval. Are the other producers on Martinque complaining?

I am big fan of Barbancourt. The fact that they are "free" from AOC, and produce a product by methods that largely follow those used by AOC Cognac and AOC Armagnac is not lost on me.

While price is important to me,(as far as perceived value goes) I have never used it as a qauge for quality.

My take on it is that the Queen has no clothes simply because she is a "Naturiste".

[Hank Koestner]

I see agricole as one TYPE of rum, made from fresh cane juice. There are a number of different expressions of this type of rum. From Martinique, we have AOC. Once again, a certain type of rum, made a certain way. In Martinique, the cane is harvested, crushed, and the juice is distilled!! Once a year!!! There are not barges of sugar cane sitting in the harbors waiting to be crushed.
I see many people pay high prices for rums that are not agricole. Smaller production equals higher prices.
And another point I must mention. The thing I like about agricole, is that this type of rum brings you the closest to the cane. The flavor profiles represent sugar cane distillate in its true form. Now, I enjoy many agricoles, as I do many other rums, equally. But the product produced in Martinique is unique, and the AOC is how they establish thier own TYPE of rum.
And, there are some in the industry who are also experts, who could make an argument about how and where the cane is grown and harvested, down to the quality of molasses it produces.
I could go on about price point, the inflation of prices because of import and local taxes, etc. And I could also make comparisons to other rum producers who make expensive souveniers.
But, I had a long day and need a glass of rum and a cigar!

[Rum Runner]

Saludos Hank!

[RumBarPhilly]

I just thought of something. All this discussion about Agricoles and AOC... we have forgotton about a similar spirit, Cachaca. Not only does Cachaca have its own rules and regulations, it gets its own spirit category! Thoughts?

And Hank, you mentioned agricole rhums bring you the closest to the sugar cane of anything. The cachacas do have them beat by a little bit.

[Rum Runner]

I just thought of something. All this discussion about Agricoles and AOC... we have forgotten about a similar spirit, Cachaca. Not only does Cachaca have its own rules and regulations, it gets its own spirit category! Thoughts?

And Hank, you mentioned agricole rhums bring you the closest to the sugar cane of anything. The cachacas do have them beat by a little bit.

Maybe Cachaca is just a marketing ploy by the oppressive Brazilian Government aimed at reducing all the other Cachaca producers in the world to mere frauds. I understand that all other sugarcane distillates that fall outside of Cachaca standards produced in Brazil must be labelled with the pejorative term "rum"...OMG...They killed Kenny!:rolleyes:

[Hank Koestner]

I would have to agree on Cachaca being closer to cane, but because of the different distillation methods, it has a far different profile then rum. I don't care for it, so it is not one of my personal categories.

[Thad Vogler]

Does anyone know if Martinique AOC producers adhere to certain agricultural principles - namely not using pesticides or synthetic fertilizers?

[Edward Hamilton]

Welcome to the forums Thad. As part of the AOC certain insecticides and fertilizers are allowed. Neisson, which grows its own cane confirms to the regulations for Biodynamic and sustainable agriculture in Martinique.

I'll see if I can get some more details.